Standing Meditation

[twocircles13]

I can’t really address the origins of Standing Meditation. I believe it is old, probably nearly as old as sitting meditation. Most of my teachers have had me practice standing meditation at some point, and nearly all if you include standing in stances, which is likely how standing meditation began. Beyond that, I can only relate my own experiences.

I was introduced in the mid-1980s to the "Embracing Horse stance" by a Yang-style Taijiquan teacher. At the time, I thought that this was just a way to stand in a horse stance, but later, I realized that he was teaching a form of standing meditation.

In 1990, I went to a man for baguazhang instruction, long story short, we followed his interests training a standing meditation system that he/we practiced every morning for an hour-plus for over a year. I once asked him what it was called, he said, "Kong Jing, like Kong Jing, but not Kong Jing.” Later, I asked if he meant Lin Kong Jing, which was just starting to get some press in the US. He said, “No, different. Shhhh.” Instruction consisted of about one sentence each day. He had learned it from an old man in his hometown, in or near Harbin, China, who also taught him a Manchurian martial art that he said he would never teach anyone else.

He had me try many arm positions and in his presence telling me to feel what each does within my body. Then, we did different stances and movements. That was really cool. Eventually, he said to clear my mind and just sense what my body needs, and let my body find the position it needs on its own. Any movement or position with which I have experience could be drawn upon. Sometimes, I'd stay in one position for long periods. Other times, I'd perform a series of movements.

It's tempting to say it felt like being a puppet on strings, but that's not right. The movement definitely comes from inside, not outside, so it's more like my subconscious mind is moving my body on autopilot. I used to call it "spontaneous neigong." I suppose it is actually some sort of neidan, internal alchemy, but not limited to classic longevity methods.

This system of training has been a foundation and has opened me up to later instruction in other systems for all of my sitting, standing, and moving meditation. Even my martial arts has benefitted, and I feel this has made my martial arts more beneficial to me.

Later, Feng Zhiqiang was a huge advocate of standing for long periods of time, an hour or two or more. That’s been pretty well discussed. One of the several important practices I got from Feng's training system was learning to clear all the excess tension, energy, and focus that might get stuck in my body.

I learned other lessons from other teachers.

I would not call myself a big proponent of standing meditation. I may even take it for granted. It has been just part of the landscape of my journey, but I have done a lot of it and have reaped great benefits from it.

[wayne hansen]

You would not call yourself a big perponent of standing
Yet you say you stood for an hour a day with one teacher and up to two with the other
To do two hours in a class means you must be doing that daily or it would not be possible

[Appledog]

Later, Feng Zhiqiang was a huge advocate of standing for long periods of time, an hour or two or more. That’s been pretty well discussed. One of the several important practices I got from Feng's training system was learning to clear all the excess tension, energy, and focus that might get stuck in my body.

I don't think enough could possibly be written about Feng's ideas and practice, so anything you care to add would be great. In fact I have some DVDs of hunyuan qigong and silk reeling and there's no standing presented in them, it's by Feng's daugter (IIRC) and her husband. In particular I want to perhaps add more time standing to my schedule but I am unsure of whether or not it has benefits beyond 5-10 min per posture. My own teacher tells me that yes standing has some benefits but has mentioned that it is a vagary of the system you are training whether or not the power comes from standing or from moving (it's different). I'm curious as to your thoughts on that and how much time you think it is ok to hold a posture. If you say 6 hours, I would go for 6 hours. Joking aside, there is a "realistic" amount of practice and a "too much" amount. Is it possible to do too much of a good thing here? What about opportunity cost? Is there a point where you've done enough standing and need to do something else? Thanks for any thoughts.

[wiesiek]

you should looking for difference in keepin` positions of the form sequence by some period of a time -
versus standing in meditation .They seems to be the same, but they really are?

[twocircles13]

You would not call yourself a big perponent of standing
Yet you say you stood for an hour a day with one teacher and up to two with the other
To do two hours in a class means you must be doing that daily or it would not be possible

Yes, it is a bit of a conundrum.

What I mean is that standing meditation is and has been part of my experience, but I have never required a student to do standing meditation. I have taught it, but I didn’t want to use valuable teaching time doing something that students really need to do on their own. I also never had a group or even a single student who wanted to get together with me for daily standing meditation.

Neither do I try to convince people that standing meditation is the best thing since sliced bread, so to speak. I am happy to share my experiences, but it is a “bitter" trail that is not for everyone.

[twocircles13]

you should looking for difference in keepin` positions of the form sequence by some period of a time -
versus standing in meditation .They seems to be the same, but they really are?

I am unsure that I understand your question.

Are you asking could you hold postures from the form for long periods of time? Yes. And, I suggest that one do that to experience it for yourself.

Would it be the same as standing in some kind of standing post position? No. You’d be in a different position(s). My experience is that different postures / positions lead to different experiences, so to me that is not "the same”.

One’s intent or lack of it is also really important. Intent during the form is often very different than any intent, or lack of intent, you might have during standing meditation.

[twocircles13]

I don't think enough could possibly be written about Feng's ideas and practice, so anything you care to add would be great. In fact I have some DVDs of hunyuan qigong and silk reeling and there's no standing presented in them, it's by Feng's daughter (IIRC) and her husband.

Before I address standing meditation, let me mention Hunyuan Qigong. In most of the “exercises” the hands or the motion are a guide for imagining “qi flow" and making connections. At some point, you want to do each exercise by imagining the actions without moving physically, then progress to doing it internally without imagining the guide, just feel the flow. At that point, I incorporated Hunyuan Qigong into my form practice, and only review it periodically.

In particular I want to perhaps add more time standing to my schedule but I am unsure of whether or not it has benefits beyond 5-10 min per posture. My own teacher tells me that yes standing has some benefits but has mentioned that it is a vagary of the system you are training whether or not the power comes from standing or from moving (it's different). I'm curious as to your thoughts on that and how much time you think it is ok to hold a posture.

If you say 6 hours, I would go for 6 hours. Joking aside, there is a "realistic" amount of practice and a "too much" amount. Is it possible to do too much of a good thing here? What about opportunity cost? Is there a point where you've done enough standing and need to do something else? Thanks for any thoughts.

Yes, I get it, the Law of Diminishing Returns. The short answer is that one's return on investment will vary from person to person and really from day to day for each person. My cut-off point is somewhat longer than 10 minutes, but I don’t want someone targeting my ideal time instead of targeting their own.

Here are some ideas that might help you figure that out for yourself.

For beginners, the Two-Look Rule.
It does not do any good to try to force yourself into standing meditation if you are thinking about your day, people, or other distractions. These are important to think about, but not during standing meditation. Set up a clock out of your line of sight, so you have to turn your head to look at it. Settle into your standing position and settle your mind. When you have to look at the clock to check how long you’ve been standing, it’s OK, just resettle yourself. When you have to look at the clock a second time, you are finished. Gradually, the times will get longer.

After that, it depends on what you want. If you want the experience of standing for and hour or two or six go for it. If you want to improve your martial arts, I suggest what I call “Streaming”. You just have to do it enough that it is incorporated into your martial arts all the time without thinking. You can explore trance states and self-hypnosis. You can explore neidan, jindan and internal alchemy and so on. Each of these is going to take a different amount of time daily and long-term.

I also recommend that if you are going to explore beyond just basic standing that you find a guide or teacher. There are some pitfalls that they should be able to help you avoid.

Each also while related has different requirements, sometimes very different.

[wiesiek]

then, it is clear, that standing meditation is quite different beast than holding the form/s/,
but
considering MA they should be united.

[twocircles13]

then, it is clear, that standing meditation is quite different beast than holding the form/s/,
but
considering MA they should be united.

Not necessarily, Daoist internal alchemical practices, including their standing meditation, had nothing at all to do with martial arts. Just because they both use the word “internal” does not mean they are the same or even similar.

On the other hand, there are some standing meditation practices that can be beneficial to one’s martial arts. Holding the different postures from the form would be one of those. There are a few others.

Standing meditation, like meditation, in general, is a very broad topic with a diversity of practices.

[wiesiek]

[twocircles13]

-argh-

Thank you for your patience, but I don’t understand your frustration.

[wiesiek]

aren`t you experienced

[Quigga]

I'm happy people want to engage on these topics in general.

Forcing yourself into meditation is always an error. Yes, there a various ways of actively engaging the mind to produce various effects. The most commonly shared productive fruit is increased concentration, which by itself doesn't do much, but is a very handy (haha) tool to achieve other things with.

Also just an increased ability to sense things in general, be it inside or outside oneself or the space between.

Letting go is the highest art and technique. It's the essence of freedom. Whatever is holding or being held, is not free. It has to be embedded in some sort of system tho, or else it doesn't work (as well).

IMAs are simply Nei Dan's offspring.

[Appledog]

Before I address standing meditation, let me mention Hunyuan Qigong. In most of the “exercises” the hands or the motion are a guide for imagining “qi flow" and making connections. At some point, you want to do each exercise by imagining the actions without moving physically, then progress to doing it internally without imagining the guide, just feel the flow. At that point, I incorporated Hunyuan Qigong into my form practice, and only review it periodically.

I also recommend that if you are going to explore beyond just basic standing that you find a guide or teacher. There are some pitfalls that they should be able to help you avoid.

Each also while related has different requirements, sometimes very different.

This makes sense. I sometimes, but usually not, feel some kind of movement. It will begin as a feeling of connection, like magnetic strength, but only in certain limited situations. Sometimes, but mostly not. For example when doing sun style wave hands like clouds, I can sometimes -- but usually not -- feel two pulses (one going in and one going out with the hands) which surprised me since I thought there was only one. Or rather in the limited situations I had it before there seemed to be only one. I can almost always feel a connection when doing sun style open and close and similar qigong, but I don't know how to link the ideas to the pulse. I have been able to repeat that in other similar exercises (for example in the Wang Ziping qigong there is a move called draw the bow on both sides). However there are many other exercises, similar exercises, which don't make this kind of sense to me.

In our system we have five points qigong which is very similar to some hunyuan qigong. Almost interchangeable, many of the same exercises. I don't understand them in this way at all. So my strategy is to do them 1000 times a day and see if something changes. Right now I'm up to 100 times a day and there are some benefits, but nothing magical yet. My biggest fear is that I am just doing them wrong. I am away from my teacher right now. But, while I was there, it seemed okay. Also, everything I have read Feng and others say about Hunyuan Qigong seems to confirm my ideas about it (what my teacher said).

If it sounds like I lack a little confidence or conviction here it's true, I don't feel I am ready to be alone. I want to go back to my teachers soon~

[Bao]

...
Forcing yourself into meditation is always an error.
...
Letting go is the highest art and technique. It's the essence of freedom.
...
IMAs are simply Nei Dan's offspring.

Good sum up