Re: Yang form of YCF ... what was YLC form
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:21 pm
There really is no definitive, absolute answer to the question of the name of taijiquan.
Unfortunately I can't find my original Henning article but the pivotal word used in working this issue is "some suggest. . ." and then evidence is brought forth to support the historical claim.
As is typical in the social sciences of academia one often has to think in term of probabilistic statements such as "it is likely that . . ." rather than a dichotomous yes/no or it is/it isn't - or one statement of cautious inferences often used: "It's possible but highly likely or unlikely"
Interestingly, in one sense it kind of knocks out the idea "Well Chen's Taijiquan isn't really Taijiquan because they didn't call it that" because it would seem that Yang Luchan (if we believe the sources that say he existed and it's likely he existed) he didn't seem to refer to his art as "Taijiquan" but rather the name was bestowed upon his art from someone outside of the martial arts circle (likely, given in the cited linked source of my post. But one can always question the validity of the sources and the claim that Chen Fake said it wasn't that name)
Interesting source:
My Thoughts On Tai Chi ~ My Personal Thoughts About The Art of Tai Chi Chuan as Philosophy and Martial Art
The Earlier Names of Tai Chi Chuan Explained
https://taichithoughts.wordpress.com/20 ... explained/
The name T’ai Chi Ch’uan, or Taijiquan (太極拳), wasn’t really common until the late 19th century. The well known scholar Weng Tonghe who was a court examiner in the late 19th century saw Yang Luchan (1799–1872) and dedicated a short poem to him: “Hands holding T’ai chi shakes the whole world, a chest containing ultimate skill defeats a gathering of heroes.”. (In texts about T’ai Chi, Weng is often mentioned as Ong Tong He. Ong is how the family name Weng is written in Fujian dialect, a dialect also common in Taiwan. Sometimes both “Weng Tonghe” and “Ong Tong He” is used together in the same texts meaning two different persons. This is actually a common mistake, maybe originating from someone who collected material from different sources. But it is the same person.)
The 5 previous names of Taijiquan are:
Changquan (长拳 )- “Long Fist”
Sanshiqi (三十七) – “37”
Shisanshi 十三势 – “13 Postures”
Mianquan (绵拳) – “Continuous Fist”
Roushou (软手) – “Soft hand”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Taijiquan Journal
VOLUME 2 NUMBER 1 WINTER 2001
"HISTORY: The Origin of the Name ‘Taijiquan”–Stanley Henning"
I recall he pegs the name around 1854 and that is his cited source below:
Zhao Ximin, “Taijiquan 13 Postures Research,” in Republish of China Martial Arts Association, eds., Chinese Martial Arts Historical Materials Collection [Ch.], Vol. 5, 1980, pp. 85-109.
Unfortunately I can't find my original Henning article but the pivotal word used in working this issue is "some suggest. . ." and then evidence is brought forth to support the historical claim.
As is typical in the social sciences of academia one often has to think in term of probabilistic statements such as "it is likely that . . ." rather than a dichotomous yes/no or it is/it isn't - or one statement of cautious inferences often used: "It's possible but highly likely or unlikely"
Interestingly, in one sense it kind of knocks out the idea "Well Chen's Taijiquan isn't really Taijiquan because they didn't call it that" because it would seem that Yang Luchan (if we believe the sources that say he existed and it's likely he existed) he didn't seem to refer to his art as "Taijiquan" but rather the name was bestowed upon his art from someone outside of the martial arts circle (likely, given in the cited linked source of my post. But one can always question the validity of the sources and the claim that Chen Fake said it wasn't that name)
Interesting source:
My Thoughts On Tai Chi ~ My Personal Thoughts About The Art of Tai Chi Chuan as Philosophy and Martial Art
The Earlier Names of Tai Chi Chuan Explained
https://taichithoughts.wordpress.com/20 ... explained/
The name T’ai Chi Ch’uan, or Taijiquan (太極拳), wasn’t really common until the late 19th century. The well known scholar Weng Tonghe who was a court examiner in the late 19th century saw Yang Luchan (1799–1872) and dedicated a short poem to him: “Hands holding T’ai chi shakes the whole world, a chest containing ultimate skill defeats a gathering of heroes.”. (In texts about T’ai Chi, Weng is often mentioned as Ong Tong He. Ong is how the family name Weng is written in Fujian dialect, a dialect also common in Taiwan. Sometimes both “Weng Tonghe” and “Ong Tong He” is used together in the same texts meaning two different persons. This is actually a common mistake, maybe originating from someone who collected material from different sources. But it is the same person.)
The 5 previous names of Taijiquan are:
Changquan (长拳 )- “Long Fist”
Sanshiqi (三十七) – “37”
Shisanshi 十三势 – “13 Postures”
Mianquan (绵拳) – “Continuous Fist”
Roushou (软手) – “Soft hand”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Taijiquan Journal
VOLUME 2 NUMBER 1 WINTER 2001
"HISTORY: The Origin of the Name ‘Taijiquan”–Stanley Henning"
I recall he pegs the name around 1854 and that is his cited source below:
Zhao Ximin, “Taijiquan 13 Postures Research,” in Republish of China Martial Arts Association, eds., Chinese Martial Arts Historical Materials Collection [Ch.], Vol. 5, 1980, pp. 85-109.