Belt Cracking Question

[CaliG]

I was working on my tiaotoshi.



As Swain says here it's all in getting that upper body control with loose wrists then explosively pulling your opponent and turning around.

Since it's hard to find someone who willing to just stand there for an hour while you explosively slam them to the ground I started doing some belt cracking on my own. I've never been trained in it formally but I can see it develops that same thing. I do a push/pull and an up/down crack. I hold it the same way I'd hold a gi.

Watching this I see a lot of up/down then there are others where he holds the belt high and low and just cracks it with the hands going left/right.

Can someone tell me what this is used for? It looks like a grip fighting/breaking motion. Is it also applied to the throws?



Also anything I should keep in mind doing push/pull and up down? I'm usually just doing them in horse stance but I notice when I step it's a lot more explosive and a lot more like a throw. I can see a lot of value in this type of training especially since it would be hard to pull off a good throw on someone who knows what you're doing unless you have this quality in it.

[johnwang]

In that clip I can see that he (Is that you?) tries to move around and force his opponent to move so he can borrow his opponent's force. The moving around is a 2 edges sword. When you can borrow your opponent's force, he can borrow yours too. I prefer "simple" footwork. David C. K. Lin has that kind of foot work in his CC book. When he gets a hold like that, he will just jump up and land both of his left and right feet on the right spot and throw his opponent (it's very similar to a jump kick). It uses one step instead of many steps. When you have reached to David's level, there is no "stealing step" and everything are just a "hop". The disadvantage of this approach is you don't have any of your opponent's force to borrow. But since your throw can force your opponent to response, this will be an excellent chance for you to train your combo that you use the 1st attack to trigger your opponent's response and take advantage on that by your 2nd attack. In this clip, the guy always tries to make his 1st move work and that's why he needs to move his opponent around. If he doesn't care his 1st move work or not, and he always depends on his 2nd move or even the 3rd move than he no longer needs complicate footwork like that.

The belt cracking, solo form, pulley, Gon rotation, ... can all develop your twisting power when you don't have training partner 24-7.

[CaliG]

Hi John,

Unfortunately that's not me in that video, that's Mike Swain he's an American world champion (they're kind of rare).

Thanks for the feedback.

[CaliG]

I've been working on it between customers at Kinko's.

Solid stuff, I didn't realize that this also really works your grip strength too.

It's no wonder SC is known for being explosive.

[johnwang]

Old SC teachers always said that if you can crack spark out of a steel chain in the dark then you may have developed some useful skill. I believe everybody should at least break one Karate belt by cracking in their life time.

[bailewen]

wow....I didn't know the Japanese term for "reverse stepping step back repulse monkey" was taiotoshi. Chinese name is much shorter in Chinese, nibu daonian hou.

It's complete with a stealing step at least twice in Baguataijiquan and repeats a half dozen other times without the step.

[josh]

Old SC teachers always said that if you can crack spark out of a steel chain in the dark then you may have developed some useful skill. I believe everybody should at least break one Karate belt by cracking in their life time.

I broke a cheap Chinese leather belt once... and punched myself in the forehead in the process That probably doesn't count, though...
I learned a bit of belt cracking from my Tongbei teacher and I think that it is one of the most versatile training exercises that I practice.

Regarding the above video, I have a question for JW or anyone else familiar with this method... from 0:10 to about 0:20, he does the belt cracking with a stealing step, but his movements seem a bit disconnected to my untrained eye - it seems like he is first sitting in the stance, then snapping the belt with his arms, rather than using the waist to transfer the power from the step into the belt. Probably he's just doing it slowly for demonstration purposes, but I'm just curious if this is the proper form or perhaps if there is a specific reason for training in this manner, because I've seen others do it this way as well. The mechanics displayed at about 3:25 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEjkMbLyAzw are a little closer to the way I learned this.

[fuga]

Fong taught me some belt cracking today in the park. It really does work the grip. Good stuff also just for reinforcing the basics (shoulders seated and proper horse stance). Thanks again, Fong!

Now I just need to figure out the bag o' bullets.

[johnwang]

from 0:10 to about 0:20, he does the belt cracking with a stealing step, but his movements seem a bit disconnected to my untrained eye - it seems like he is first sitting in the stance, then snapping the belt with his arms, rather than using the waist to transfer the power from the step into the belt.

The belt cracking did in Taiwan is a bit different from the way as they did in China. In China, they want to train log body rotation Jin. In Taiwan they want to train short cold Jin. IMO, the long Jin can be trained through the solo forms already.

[CaliG]

Yeah this an excellent training tool.

What I like about it is you can go for a big snap without anyone getting hurt.

By that I mean no one gets pissed, I've used fajing in my throws in the past in a bjj/judo context and my partners got a little pissed. Although you might see something like that in competition they tend not to use on training partners, which I suppose is why they don't have training methods for it (pubically anyway).

I've noticed sambo players and Russian judoka don't have this problem though. I'm convinced the Soviets and CCP had some kind of exchange of martial knowledge for military purposes back in the day.

[josh]

from 0:10 to about 0:20, he does the belt cracking with a stealing step, but his movements seem a bit disconnected to my untrained eye - it seems like he is first sitting in the stance, then snapping the belt with his arms, rather than using the waist to transfer the power from the step into the belt.

The belt cracking did in Taiwan is a bit different from the way as they did in China. In China, they want to train log body rotation Jin. In Taiwan they want to train short cold Jin. IMO, the long Jin can be trained through the solo forms already.

Thanks for the answer, that makes sense. Is a shorter belt also used to train the cold jin?

Couple more cracking vids:

[johnwang]

I've used fajing in my throws in the past in a bjj/judo context and my partners got a little pissed.

I think you have a good understanding about what true CMA is. When you apply a good "head lock", you pretty much knock your opponent 1/2 way out already before you even throw him. The head lock is just the "continuation" of a hook punch to the back of the head with your forearm. The Fajin blend into the throw and it's very difficult for any judge to detect it except your opponent on the receiving side.

[wiesiek]

Tai o toshi
means "Big lowering of the body"
and i dont see it in this vid.
this throw is done more from powerfull twisting /craki`n the belt/ than lowering the body and twist.

its nothing wrong
just example of "brute force"
in one of my favorite judo throw.
i also dont like his "waving antre"

My taiotoshi starts from sweep and i allow my seeping leg to be the director of my body twisting/lowering movment
according to "cracki`n the belt'" and
twisting the head in ending seq.
and
is really low
but this is my personal flavor

hve good time in researching Greg
in 2009
ps.
when my taiotoshi is blocked i like swich direction and go for kinda of "hooked" Osotogari
wow
i give my best move for free!

W.

[CaliG]

Dzieki Wiesiek,

I like your combination and your version of taiotoshi.

When I finish it I also have 100% of my weight on the non-sweeping leg and I'm also facing the next corner rather than turning 180, this is how the Russians taught me.

But I think the Japanese/American schools do it the Swain way and I can't argue with Swain, this country doesn't produce a lot of judoka that reach that level on the international scene.

Pozdrowenia,

G

[iwalkthecircle]

Also anything I should keep in mind doing push/pull and up down? I'm usually just doing them in horse stance but I notice when I step it's a lot more explosive and a lot more like a throw. I can see a lot of value in this type of training especially since it would be hard to pull off a good throw on someone who knows what you're doing unless you have this quality in it.

BTW he is one of my current coach M Mollica.