As Hard as you F*cking Can.

[origami_itto]

If its internal that one is looking for,,,this would not be it...

If one is looking to step into a ring, with others,,,yep,

Do "internal" people have no interest in combat?

My interest lies in avoiding it at all costs and ending it as quickly as possible.
Fighting really is the least interesting part of these arts.

[windwalker]

If its internal that one is looking for,,,this would not be it...

If one is looking to step into a ring, with others,,,yep,

Do "internal" people have no interest in combat?

Internal, external are distinctions used to indicate types of training that develop different skill sets that can be used for fighting.

They by themselves are not fighting.


Whether one can fight using either method is a different type of training .

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

[
As to your training...understand the focus on power, otherwise might mention the gap in movement. Obvious build up, loading...
Understand the practice is for power ..
If its internal that one is looking for,,,this would not be it...
If one is looking to step into a ring, with others,,,yep,

Absolutely what you see is what it is - gapped movement for a video game "power-up" on each shot - this was just an example of what I've been doing for this style of training in my combatives work, not IMA - the question I would have is "what does this kind of training look like for Bagua/Xingyi?" and if people would use pads like this or other methods to push upper limits of impact in application. I personally have stepped into rings with others but get that isn't for everyone, so this is more about finding transferrable skills and mentality to make for a deeper combatives experience or a more weaponized IMA experience which is very much my interest.

YOU SUCK!!!1!
J/K
Not sure what commentary you expect here. I like the clarity of your punches/kicks, but this drill seems to belong neither in the "internal" nor in the "As Hard as you F*cking Can" realm. Looks like good MMA striking training - nothing less, nothing more.
FWIW

Yes, yes, let your hatred flow...
Yeah, this was just what I had from training this week which happened to be Muay thai (and usually is, because it's sexy, versatile and makes me look good). Power triples are just that, hits in sequence with a load-up between, later in the video I shift to L-R-L with a switch kick but it can be any power shot. I'm looking to do similar with 5 Elements/animals (my xingyi is basic) or gao huotien stuff because that kind of kinesthetic feedback is important and, I think, often gets missed or not done to a high level. Not because it's not possible but bc the majority are like Itto and don't care much about fighting, which is fine, but as a fighter I need that spice in my sauce at all times.

My interest lies in avoiding it at all costs and ending it as quickly as possible.
Fighting really is the least interesting part of these arts.

I've found "Ending it as quickly as possible" way easier to do if my training lets me reasonably think I can knock them into next week.

[johnwang]

Today I finished by working on power triples in this vein.
https://www.tiktok.com/@tea.leaf.method/video/7244801254684232965(

You have 2 combos in your video start with left leg forward:

1. right cross, left hook, right back leg roundhouse kick.
2. left hook, right cross, left front leg roundhouse kick.

It's more logical to use kick to set up punch than the other way around. You have to enter the kicking range before you can enter the punching range.

For 1, I don't like to start my combo with a cross. I like to start with a jab, or leading arm hook because I don't want to commit on my 1st attack. I do like the back leg roundhouse kick with full body rotation.

For 2. I like your leading arm left hook, right cross combo. I don't like the front leg roundhouse kick (not enough body rotation).

I find out that in this forum, people don't like to discuss "strategy". "Strategy" is my favor discussion subject such as "how to use move 1 to set up move 2".

IMO, strategy is general MA discussion. It's above all MA systems. I just don't see any contradiction between "strategy" and "internal".

[johnwang]

My interest lies in avoiding it at all costs and ending it as quickly as possible.
Fighting really is the least interesting part of these arts.

My interest is not in the street fight. My interest is in the ring sparring and mat wrestling. To me, the ring sparring and mat wrestling have lot of fun that money can't buy it.

[windwalker]

Absolutely what you see is what it is - gapped movement for a video game "power-up" on each shot - this was just an example of what I've been doing for this style of training in my combatives work, not IMA - the question I would have is "what does this kind of training look like for Bagua/Xingyi?" and if people would use pads like this or other methods to push upper limits of impact in application. I personally have stepped into rings with others but get that isn't for everyone, so this is more about finding transferrable skills and mentality to make for a deeper combatives experience or a more weaponized IMA experience which is very much my interest.

.

an outstanding question

It might help to think about what is used, how momentum, is generated and imparted to other bodies...


The differences between what you demoed in your practice and what others such as myself show and demo in their practices..
Collision versus conducting ...different methods

Often questioned by those not practicing the methods used in the demos expecting the same results based on their practice

like the training you showed, echo the comments you made on the other thread..

[johnwang]

the question I would have is "what does this kind of training look like for Bagua/Xingyi?"

I have always believed that 1st you need to have a toolbox that contains enough tools. You then need a principle/strategy kit that contains enough principles/strategies. You can then develop your MA skill from there without any "style limitations".

The praying mantis system can be a good example. The PM toolbox contains:

- jab,
- cross,
- hook,
- uppercut,
- overhand,
- roundhouse kick
- ...

The PM principle/strategy kit contains:

- use punch to set up another punch.
- use punch to set up kick.
- ...

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

T
You have 2 combos in your video start with left leg forward:
1. right cross, left hook, right back leg roundhouse kick.
2. left hook, right cross, left front leg roundhouse kick.

It's more logical to use kick to set up punch than the other way around. You have to enter the kicking range before you can enter the punching range.

For 1, I don't like to start my combo with a cross. I like to start with a jab, or leading arm hook because I don't want to commit on my 1st attack. I do like the back leg roundhouse kick with full body rotation.

For 2. I like your leading arm left hook, right cross combo. I don't like the front leg roundhouse kick (not enough body rotation).

I find out that in this forum, people don't like to discuss "strategy". "Strategy" is my favor discussion subject such as "how to use move 1 to set up move 2".

I understand what you are saying regarding combination structure but power triples are just that, three power shots in sequence to train to hit harder, it is not a combination I would recommend anyone default to in sparring or a fight without a strong understanding of the opportunity for it and risks of being countered. That's a different discussion, I'm just trying to wreck the pads here.

RE: kicking to finish/range - Thai kicks hitting with the shin can be and are, in this case, thrown at punching range, especially to the legs - this is a style hallmark. In that vein - this is a clip where I show the switch left kick for advancing, static, and retreating - same kick, same target but three ranges and "moods." (https://www.tiktok.com/@tea.leaf.method/video/7213792329738554629
This is the kind of content I would be looking at in a discussion about strategies and tool use. I have dropped more people than I can count with the retreating left kick to the liver, invaluable as as a simple bait retreat, counter-counter, against a pusher/clincher whether singly or finishing a combination.

I am more than happy to discuss strategy and combinations in another thread but want to stay on topic here.

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

an outstanding question

It might help to think about what is used, how momentum, is generated and imparted to other bodies...


The differences between what you demoed in your practice and what others such as myself show and demo in their practices..
Collision versus conducting ...different methods

Often questioned by those not practicing the methods used in the demos expecting the same results based on their practice

like the training you showed, echo the comments you made on the other thread..

So this is the rub though - if there is collision vs conducting, are they mutually exclusive? When I comment on the dodgy demos in those threads I mean I see it an like aikido or systema demo in that it relies on a partner that either is committed to the notion that "it works" or lacks the combative skills to understand why it shouldn't. Neither are malicious, but if your partner can't throw a jab, find someone who does. Like JW talking about throwing children, teenagers, adults and finally monsters, I see a lot of examples of practitioners who stopped at throwing around children and now assume it will work on monsters.

I will train many ways to "conduct" when parrying, clinching, grappling, throwing - not unlike what was demo'd in the other thread (except it works on people that don't want it to), but I also train for collision because they don't pay by the hour. To my mind - If a practice mostly trains to "conduct" it should sometimes priotize training to "Collide," if a practice only train to "collide" it should probably find space for "conduct"

As I've asked about power hitting and only shown a fraction of my striking here it is natural to question if there is any finesse or quality in my bridging/grappling, and while those skills are not relevant in this thread I'm happy to discuss them elsewhere.

[windwalker]

hop gar sister style to Tibetan White Crane.

note: eye warning



Chin Shifu, "David Chin" good friend of mine...
some of the work his students did..

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

hop gar sister style to Tibetan White Crane.

Can't say they aren't putting the effort in, that is a contraption and a half.

[windwalker]

Don't know nor really care about what others do or not......not relevant to what I do or what I practice for...
just sharing some thoughts and experience

People test and train what they practice....

According to the environment they train for....

if there is collision vs conducting, are they mutually exclusive?

I've found it to be so....due to the mechanics and other things behind it..All CMA is internal
how its expressed, developed, used, are what the distinctions reference....... ..

Has to do with joining and sticking....only speaking of taiji
"colliding" as a way of imparting momentum, would not be
what the training method develops nor how its trained...in other lines of taiji might be different ya never know ...


A matter of training....one that if one doesn't train it "conducting" a force
they might be hard pressed to understand how something is done or the why of reactions when others encounter it...

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

Don't know nor really care about what others do or not.....

*shrug* ok I'll stop replying to you then.

[johnwang]

three power shots in sequence to train to hit harder, it is not a combination I would recommend anyone default to in sparring or a fight without a strong understanding of the opportunity for it and risks of being countered. That's a different discussion, I'm just trying to wreck the pads here.

I may mis-understand the purpose of your combo training. In your case, your power generation combo training may be separated from your combat combo training. I prefer to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

I may mis-understand the purpose of your combo training. In your case, your power generation combo training may be separated from your combat combo training. I prefer to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Yep, I have no argument against doing that - only so many hours in the day after all, I'm making time for this because I feel it gives me a specific result that I (the typically smaller, lighter fighter) need more of.
Regarding combinations I prefer to build my combinations in 2's and 3's, I'll rarely do a sequence longer than that because the frames have usually shifted by the end of 3 hits (successful or blocked) and I'll follow with something I think fits in that new frame or disengage to start again. "The Jab" gets used as a catch-all combination starter but it's a weapon on its own and doubly so with a reach/speed advantage. If I don't need to follow it up and put myself in a closer range and at more risk against someone who isn't coping with it, I won't, and they'll just keep eating it until a new/better opening comes up or they learn to better manage that offense.