How do you structure a class?

[everything]

if you pick up any long stick, xingyiquan 5 elements just "make sense". it's possibly the most self explanatory thing there is in IMA or MA.

taijiquan is the least self explanatory art that exists. so if you "add" a weapon, it seems you probably just get more confusion. lolol

[Taste of Death]

if you pick up any long stick, xingyiquan 5 elements just "make sense". it's possibly the most self explanatory thing there is in IMA or MA.

taijiquan is the least self explanatory art that exists. so if you "add" a weapon, it seems you probably just get more confusion. lolol

Xingyiquan is a spear art. While practicing the five elements fists, stop wherever you are in the movement and see if you can hold a stick with both hands. It's easy to do at the beginning and end of the movement.

These guys love their sticks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1Vvnbq_ZY

[D_Glenn]

if you pick up any long stick, xingyiquan 5 elements just "make sense". it's possibly the most self explanatory thing there is in IMA or MA.

taijiquan is the least self explanatory art that exists. so if you "add" a weapon, it seems you probably just get more confusion. lolol

In the Baguazhang that I do the Qilin Animal system is the most Yin, it has Soft and Following, Sticking and Adhering. With some slight modifications you could do the movements with a sturdy, thick (completely inflexible) pole with a spear tip on each end. While the Lion, our most Yang Animal system can use a chain with a spear attached to the ends.
‘If the weapon is hard, then the body needs to be soft. If the weapon is soft then the body needs to be hard, in order to wield it.’
XYQ is based off a really flexible spear that, instead of stabbing directly into something, it could flex around something like a shield or armor and stick into something soft, a chink.
.

[Taste of Death]

if you pick up any long stick, xingyiquan 5 elements just "make sense". it's possibly the most self explanatory thing there is in IMA or MA.

taijiquan is the least self explanatory art that exists. so if you "add" a weapon, it seems you probably just get more confusion. lolol

XYQ is based off a really flexible spear that, instead of stabbing directly into something, it could flex around something like a shield or armor and stick into something soft, a chink.
.

waxwood

[Steve James]

It's interesting. I've heard the argument that xingyi -spear, bagua -dao, and tcc -jian. Otoh, so the story goes, the Yang family became associated with the long pole because Yang Panhou (?) injured someone using the spear.

Ultimately, imo, more people in old-China would have carried sticks and small knives, as opposed to long swords or spears. I'd take a staff over a knife -and probably a sword.

[everything]

here in the usa, if it's "random violence" you're worried about it could be road rage/ gun violence. but statistically it's falling in your own abode once you're a certain age (tai chi wins as best "self defense" training unless old people are also gonna do asian squat, pistol squat, and MA breakfalls)

other places, maybe it's sticks and knives ... or dogs (we already said in that other thread you're basically f**&ked in that case) but hey, experienced MAist with a gun or knife, maybe you're ok, idk.

[origami_itto]

If you're talking death, violence is a long way down the list of things to worry about.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death- ... icans-die/

[Doc Stier]

...so the story goes, the Yang family became associated with the long pole because Yang Panhou (?) injured someone using the spear.

It was far more tragic than an injury. One of Yang Pan-Hou's daughters was accidentally killed as a result of two person training with live spears. Thereafter, as a result, all long spear training was practiced using long poles without attached spearheads in the Yang family.

[Trick]

that xingyiquan would be based on spear combat may be so, but im not convinced even that i been doing xingyiquan for many years now.
anyway, it is interesting that many of the past masters almost always were recognised by their spear skill - not the Dao or the Jian.....
In this view i think it shows that the dao and jian was later additions and mostly so in a sense of bulking upp the curriculum for a broader adudience.

[Graculus]

Having seen some very close calls in heavily supervised spear and sword training with live weapons, I can well believe the possibility of fatal accidents.

On the topic of guns, I recall Adam Hsu mentioning that Chen Ming Biao (Chen style, active 1920’s –30’s) was skilled in firearms use.

Graculus
Https://Ichijoji.blogspot.com

[Bao]

that xingyiquan would be based on spear combat may be so, but im not convinced even that i been doing xingyiquan for many years now.

But how many years have you practiced the spear?

The five fists are virtually identical to 5 of the most important spear techniques. For example "Zuan" 钻 in "zuanquan" means "drill", "pierce", "enter", "get into". This technique comes from the most basic and important spear/staff entering technique, where you strike the opponents spear/staff in a twisting, upward motion so you stick to the opponent's weapon and can control it. You end up in a position that looks identical to "zuanquan". From this position you can do things as twist the weapon to apply strike downward (as "piquan") or pull its back and down to strike forward (as "bengquan").

But I guess most people only practice forms, not many understand or practice the fundamental techniques, so they can't explain these things. Which in fact means they don't know how to actually use the spear/staff and don't understand real spear play in action.

So Chinese weapon arts focus on "stick and control". You attack the opponent's weapon so you can stick and control. This is why Chinese martial arts are different from boxing or kick-boxing. You don't chase points and try avoid punches in the same way as in western arts. Instead you enter and attack in a way so you can control the opponent's limbs and/or body. This is why it's called "bridging" in the southern arts. You also need to keep this in mind when you look at the XY 5 fists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmyj_OlTFGk&t=672s

Starting at 1.12:

[Trick]

that xingyiquan would be based on spear combat may be so, but im not convinced even that i been doing xingyiquan for many years now.

But how many years have you practiced the spear?

The five fists are virtually identical to 5 of the most important spear techniques. For example "Zuan" 钻 in "zuanquan" means "drill", "pierce", "enter", "get into". This technique comes from the most basic and important spear/staff entering technique, where you strike the opponents spear/staff in a twisting, upward motion so you stick to the opponent's weapon and can control it. You end up in a position that looks identical to "zuanquan". From this position you can do things as twist the weapon to apply strike downward (as "piquan") or pull its back and down to strike forward (as "bengquan").

But I guess most people only practice forms, not many understand or practice the fundamental techniques, so they can't explain these things. Which in fact means they don't know how to actually use the spear/staff and don't understand real spear play in action.

So Chinese weapon arts focus on "stick and control". You attack the opponent's weapon so you can stick and control. This is why Chinese martial arts are different from boxing or kick-boxing. You don't chase points and try avoid punches in the same way as in western arts. Instead you enter and attack in a way so you can control the opponent's limbs and/or body. This is why it's called "bridging" in the southern arts. You also need to keep this in mind when you look at the XY 5 fists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmyj_OlTFGk&t=672s

Starting at 1.12:

spear practice, me ?!...hrmm...actually non

and actually thats it, i learned xingyiquan without even a single minute of spear learning....（ok, i do have some expeience with the Japanese short staff - Jo）.
i didnt need the spear to understand either forms or fighting and the how those twos interplay with eachother.
at its ultimate core we have our limbs, our arms with their hands, if we want or need to poke at somthing from a distance whe pick up a stick which becomes the extention of the arm/hand/finger, if we twist the arm the stick twist with it......i dont think humans had to rediscover the motions of the limbs throu the use of tools.

recently i read an artickle about Sokon Matsumura, a legendary figure in the history of karate, it was said that he was the one who introduced into karate words such as ”knife-hand”, something he did already a master boxer but after he had recieved his teacher license in the sword school of jigen-ryu. and such terminology stick to date even that most karate practitioner never have even touched a katana, or any sword for that matter, still som teachers take it to the level to explain that ones arms and hands should be as swords.....Just because someone famous back in history changed/added som terminology to the already functional boxing method

[Trick]

oh, i forgot the bridging and sticking, im sure that originally is from wrestling/grappling rather that spear work.

[Bao]

i dont think humans had to rediscover the motions of the limbs throu the use of tools.

Who said they had?

Martial arts have at least partially developed through military training and weapons practice. Theory from weaponry has been translated into empty hand combat. Completely obvious if you look at an art as XY, all of the postures and names of the five fists are derived directly and literally from Chinese spear play. So it's not about re-learning anything.

oh, i forgot the bridging and sticking, im sure that originally is from wrestling/grappling rather that spear work.

Totalt disagree.

Chinese spear/staff play is far older than the wrestling you can see today in China.

Also, sticking is not grasping. Sticking is something done without the use of the hands/fingers. Weaponry is very different from common wrestling strategies. Quite the opposite.

[origami_itto]

Going by this thread, realistically, we should all just do I Chuan and boxing and call it a day.