why doesn't YCF describe raising and lowering hands here

[everything]

太極拳起勢預備
TAIJI BOXING BEGINNING POSTURE – PREPARATION

「說明」此為太極拳出勢預備動作之形勢站定時頭宜正直內含頂勁眼向前平視胸微內含脊背拔起不可前俯後仰两肩下沉两肘微坐两手下埀指尖向前掌心向下腰胯稍鬆两足距離與两肩相齊在此時精神內固氣沉丹田一任自然不可造作守我之靜以待敵人之動然人每於此姿勢容易忽畧殊不知無論練法用法俱不得脫此望閱者學者首當於此注意焉
Explanation:
This is Taiji Boxing’s opening posture, the shape you assume in preparation for movement. While standing stably, the head should be held erect, drawn in and pressed up, the gaze straight ahead. The chest is slightly hollowed and the back pulled up. There must be no leaning forward or back. The shoulders sink, the elbows slightly sit, and the hands hang with fingers forward and palms down. The waist and hips loosen, and the feet are shoulder width apart. Spirit is now consolidated within and energy is sinking to the elixir field. Let it happen naturally, for you cannot make it happen. I preserve my stillness to await the opponent’s movement. However, people typically are liable to neglect this posture, ignorant in particular that regardless of whatever technique is being practiced or applied, none of them can be disassociated from this one. I hope the reader or student will give it first priority and pay attention to it.

he goes straight to Ward Off next. no mention of the commonly seen raising and lower of hands. e.g.
https://youtu.be/pTbaNLRIJnA?si=DQRSzPKjn-4q84hY&t=15

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... hiyong-fa/

[origami_itto]

The raising and lowering and just large circle.

The movement makes it easier to achieve. Fu Zhongwen says he added nothing and took nothing away and he describes the raising and lowering in great detail in his book.

Could be it was intentionally omitted as a "secret" since it really is 95% of the art

What I find interesting is the Dong family starts with legs apart and the raising of the arms here is done with the palms facing each other while the Cheng Man Ching and Fu Zhong Wen descendants favor palms down.

I can say I notice a distinct difference between the two.

[everything]

I have that book (Swaim translation), and you're right, impressive detail there.

I'll try the palm distinction out. If I notice anything, I'll try to remember to comment.

[everything]

the Cheng Man-ch'ing "simplified method" book (various translators in a team) describes it some.

the Sun (Cartmell) book describes it a little more.

[origami_itto]

I have that book (Swaim translation), and you're right, impressive detail there.

I'll try the palm distinction out. If I notice anything, I'll try to remember to comment.

What I feel there is that you turn your palms down at the shoulder coordinated with sitting the hips that starts the wave of energy continuing with the elbows and knees, feet and hands.

[everything]

at first glance, that sensation is stronger for me if my palms point downward. if I keep my palms facing each other, it's not as strong.

side note to myself that my elbow sinking sensation is a bit weak imho.

[origami_itto]

at first glance, that sensation is stronger for me if my palms point downward. if I keep my palms facing each other, it's not as strong.

side note to myself that my elbow sinking sensation is a bit weak imho.

They face till they reach the top and turn in as the sinking begins. Imagine lifting something as you rise.

[everything]

at first glance i notice more the yang side if my palms face down as the arms go up. if my palms face in, i notice the yin. i don't always tend to do this move, instead circling my arms out, up, back down. (i know, i know, bad student).

[origami_itto]

at first glance i notice more the yang side if my palms face down as the arms go up. if my palms face in, i notice the yin

I don't understand what you mean.

[everything]

There is more energy sensation on outside of my arms going up with palms down.

Opposite with palms in.

[Bao]

Interesting question. Haven't noticed it was omitted.

If you have a look at forms named "Old" yang, "Imperial yang" or ppl from some lineages as from Tian Zhaolin, you can see different variations of "Lift hands".

...There's sometimes more to it than just "raising and lowering" the arms...

[origami_itto]

Interesting question. Haven't noticed it was omitted.

If you have a look at forms named "Old" yang, "Imperial yang" or ppl from some lineages as from Tian Zhaolin, you can see different variations of "Lift hands".

...There's sometimes more to it than just "raising and lowering" the arms...

Never heard that describe as "lift hands" Only "beginning Taiji" and as a qigong "Up and down". "Lift hands" I recall as another translation of "raise hands" which follows the first single whip.

That movement is a full body open and close, basically the ONE thing that everything else works off of. I spend the majority of my training time doing this as an exercise, it's where all the power comes from.

The fu zhongwen description leads me to conclude their method was to turn the palms down AS the hands came up. Since they are starting facing each other with your body in between in preparation and his description is that they are palms down at the top of the movement, that makes the most sense to me.

@everything, palms down is weaker upwards, full stop. Cheng Man Ching was more about the Qi than practical use, look at the feet in repulse monkey and brush knee.

In beginning Taij and repulse monkey, his method is about opening the gates and meridians. The parallel feet make opening things in the lower back easier. The way the wrist bends in beginning activate all the meridians that route through the wrist.

So they are theoretically more beneficial from a health perspective, but definitely less effective as pertains to martial arts applications. Beginning is weaker, monkeys are worthless, brush knee has a hole in it.

[charles]

…..

[GrahamB]

Kuzushi.

[everything]

more about the qi

hmm, only interested in this neigong aspect at the moment, so tend to follow the "qi feeling".