Piriformis stretch with octagon stepping

[Yeung]

Octagon stepping in Baguaquan is taking a 45 degree turn in every step to complete a rectangular octagon as follows:

1. Stand passively with legs together and knees flex 20 degrees then the inner leg slides straight forward one step
2. Rotate laterally 45 degrees forward to balance on the inner leg
3. Pivot on the hip join of the inner leg 90 degrees medially and drag the outer leg next to the inner leg to slide straight forward one step
4. Rotate 45 degrees laterally forward to balance on the outer leg while the inner leg bounced back laterally 45 degrees to its normal position next to the outer leg then stretch to slide straight forward one step
5. Repeat the process from 2 until the end of one direction
6. Change direction can be done by pivot on the inner leg medially 90 degree and rotating the outer leg medially 45 degrees to take half a step forward
7. Pivot laterally 45 degrees on the outer leg now become the inner leg and release the tension on the inner or rear leg and turn 90 degrees laterally facing the opposite direction and take half a step forward and repeat from 2 until the end
8. At the end just feet together and stand up straight

It is not sure at this moment when facing the centre while doing octagon stepping will have any extra impact on the piriformis as we can rotate our torso to either side of the body when seated. One can certainly turn at a greater angle to increase the tension on the gluteal muscles but in practice this will drag the leg along when it reaches the maximum range of motion while stepping. I think the comparve advantage to the crossed leg and turn stretching is that when standing passively on one leg and turning there is downward pressure acting on the gluteal muscles. This is like pressing the piriformis and turning the hip joint at the same time.

I am just trying to help someone who thinks her piriformis is pressing on her sciatic nerve, therefore your corrections, comments and additional information on the subject will be very helpful, thank you.

[twocircles13]

I am just trying to help someone who thinks her piriformis is pressing on her sciatic nerve, therefore your corrections, comments and additional information on the subject will be very helpful, thank you.

Before we go off on some, I’m sure, quite interesting discussions of bagua stepping or Piriformis therapies, be sure it is the Piriformis that needs to be addressed.

Have your friend draw where it hurts. The pattern of her pain will tell you a lot. There is a second chart that shows patterns in the low back that hurt in the hips if her pain pattern is not here.



The Piriformis will cause the pink pain pattern illustrated on the leg in the in the center lower part of the chart and nowhere else. There is a darker portion that always hurts at the top of the pain pattern, but it can hurt on the posterior leg even down to the bottom of the foot. Hip, back of the leg and bottom of the foot is a pretty good indicator that the problem is Piriformis. There are other ways the sciatic nerve can become impinged or pressured and create a similar pain pattern other than the Piriformis.

A similar pattern that does not involve the Piriformis is the one on the left in gold or brown. It does not ever involve the bottom of the foot, and may involve other areas around the hip.

Often, someone will say their sciatic nerve is hurting and draw the pattern down the side of the leg, like the blue pattern on the leg to the left of center. This happened so often, I started calling it “false sciatica” or "pseudo-sciatica”. The pain was real, but the location was and source were not the sciatic nerve or the Piriformis.

Let us know how it goes.

I’ve always enjoyed octagon stepping. It puts demands on many muscles in the lumbo-pelvic-hip complex, but it may or may not help your friend.

[everything]

is it the 8 step circle walk? isn't that 135 degrees? or is it something else? just curious. good luck to your friend.

[twocircles13]

is it the 8 step circle walk? isn't that 135 degrees? or is it something else? just curious. good luck to your friend.

LOL!

I guess that depends on how you measure the angles.

[everything]

lol, i'd assume we would tend to measure along the "inside" of the circle/octagon rather than the "trailing angle" on the "outside"

but it sounds like it's the same step we all mean, and not something else. like alternate kou and bai. random example here:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/C1BM_AxLAOo

[yeniseri]

Octagon stepping in Baguaquan is taking a 45 degree turn in every step to complete a rectangular octagon as follows:

1. Stand passively with legs together and knees flex 20 degrees then the inner leg slides straight forward one step
2. Rotate laterally 45 degrees forward to balance on the inner leg
3. Pivot on the hip join of the inner leg 90 degrees medially and drag the outer leg next to the inner leg to slide straight forward one step
4. Rotate 45 degrees laterally forward to balance on the outer leg while the inner leg bounced back laterally 45 degrees to its normal position next to the outer leg then stretch to slide straight forward one step
5. Repeat the process from 2 until the end of one direction
6. Change direction can be done by pivot on the inner leg medially 90 degree and rotating the outer leg medially 45 degrees to take half a step forward
7. Pivot laterally 45 degrees on the outer leg now become the inner leg and release the tension on the inner or rear leg and turn 90 degrees laterally facing the opposite direction and take half a step forward and repeat from 2 until the end
8. At the end just feet together and stand up straight

It is not sure at this moment when facing the centre while doing octagon stepping will have any extra impact on the piriformis as we can rotate our torso to either side of the body when seated. One can certainly turn at a greater angle to increase the tension on the gluteal muscles but in practice this will drag the leg along when it reaches the maximum range of motion while stepping. I think the comparve advantage to the crossed leg and turn stretching is that when standing passively on one leg and turning there is downward pressure acting on the gluteal muscles. This is like pressing the piriformis and turning the hip joint at the same time.

I am just trying to help someone who thinks her piriformis is pressing on her sciatic nerve, therefore your corrections, comments and additional information on the subject will be very helpful, thank you.

This is a better explanation of baquazhang /baquaquan stepping that I have come across but I am afraid that the 'mystical' still predominate the discussion and like many things formatted to fit a rational training method/conditioning, it will be seen as 'sacriledge", as it were.

[twocircles13]

lol, i'd assume we would tend to measure along the "inside" of the circle/octagon rather than the "trailing angle" on the "outside"

but it sounds like it's the same step we all mean, and not something else. like alternate kou and bai. random example here:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/C1BM_AxLAOo

It entirely depends on your perspective. From a practitioner’s viewpoint, you are turning each of your feet 45° off their forward line.

But, yes, I think we are talking about the same thing.

[twocircles13]

{Duplicate, not sure what’s up with that.}

[twocircles13]

lol, i'd assume we would tend to measure along the "inside" of the circle/octagon rather than the "trailing angle" on the "outside"

but it sounds like it's the same step we all mean, and not something else. like alternate kou and bai. random example here:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/C1BM_AxLAOo

It entirely depends on your perspective. From a practitioner’s viewpoint, you are turning each of your feet 45° off their forward line. From geometric viewpoint, each angle is 135°.

But, yes, I think we are talking about the same thing, if I understand the OP correctly.

[everything]

lol, i'd assume we would tend to measure along the "inside" of the circle/octagon rather than the "trailing angle" on the "outside"

but it sounds like it's the same step we all mean, and not something else. like alternate kou and bai. random example here:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/C1BM_AxLAOo

It entirely depends on your perspective. From a practitioner’s viewpoint, you are turning each of your feet 45° off their forward line. From geometric viewpoint, each angle is 135°.

But, yes, I think we are talking about the same thing, if I understand the OP correctly.

i would've guessed we mainly use the angle between the two feet. but that makes sense and is maybe better in some cases - like how to describe the kou and bai example. the angle between the lines of the feet is roughly the same. but the toe out foot travels ... 180? in the random example, he also takes a large step. i've seen it where the toe out step lands back 180 to where the foot was, and the toe in foot makes the new shape with the foot distance the same. this probably makes no sense in words.... a diagram, picture, or video would be better

[gerard]

When you walk the circle correctly there isn't anything mystical as referred earlier on. He Jinghan has put a great deal of videos about this subject on his YT channel (and as usual they are invaluable & deep teachings).

If one approaches this subject as a matter of muscles, circle walking becomes like most Tai Chi today: a colourful style of dance.

Let's see:

https://youtu.be/lcgV0C-V3pU?si=5l1RFxUelBmMy125

https://youtu.be/1SLdSOmdZXs?si=Opwjh8LNKqnEPqIq

https://youtu.be/l1kSwi5O24w?si=vJBPSKstIKM7s0Mo

https://youtu.be/qgANc5uUeQU?si=N0dUybmD8ZXGZ-pf

Basically it becomes a whole collection of principles one must follow in order to get the full benefit of circle walking.

[wayne hansen]

Boxing no boxing
Mind no mind