the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

if you're circle walking, are you walking around a tree or plant or object? how often? always, sometimes, never?

Never

Forgot to say why or why not

Both
Tree allows a special type of focus

Because (in my lineage) circle turning is a tactic that only comes about, after contact with an opponent is made. A tree or pole would put you force you out of reach with an opponent.

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D_Glenn wrote:Because (in my lineage) circle turning is a tactic that only comes about, after contact with an opponent is made. A tree or pole would put you force you out of reach with an opponent.

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Agreed 100%. This is how it should be regardless lineage. Walking, turnings are all entering and positioning strategies responding to an opponent's attack.

I agree with how it is used
Still I think aligning with the centre gives you a point of focus to align the structure

Trees are cool and all, but you need to go full Shaman and dance around a bonfire to get the real effect...

bonfire sounds a lot more entertaining.

agree with wayne it's nice to have a reference point. plus the "hug tree qi" is just "better".

D_Glenn wrote:Because (in my lineage) circle turning is a tactic that only comes about, after contact with an opponent is made. A tree or pole would put you force you out of reach with an opponent.

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you don't feel the "practice" of circle walking regardless of what point or object is used as a center is useful practice?

"walking" the circle is used in other practices besides bagua, for many different things besides first contact...
Tibetan, White Crane, is famous for using "walking" the circle as part of its sparring / fighting development / strategy.

Always felt the bagua practice was to develop make a center existing outside the body among other things, thoughts ?

I find having something to walk around helps with cultivating an implicit sense of distance and range

windwalker wrote:you don't feel the "practice" of circle walking regardless of what point or object is used as a center is useful practice?

"walking" the circle is used in other practices besides bagua, for many different things besides first contact...
Tibetan, White Crane, is famous for using "walking" the circle as part of its sparring / fighting development / strategy.

Always felt the bagua practice was to develop make a center existing outside the body among other things, thoughts ?

Circle Turning is a specific practice that merges meditation with tactical footwork. It’s roughly 60% health and strengthening reasons, then 40% martial. Having the point you’re turning around, inside the reach of your own arm’s reach is beneficial for both. To get the health benefits you need to practice everyday, in the same place, so that it’s easier to trick your body into turning on the Glymphatic System. If you can find a place outside, with a tree, that you can practice 365 days a year at. Then yes you could do that, but you won’t really get much benefit in the stepping because the angle that your feet need to turn is insignificant. Where a circle that is the same diameter as you are tall, forces a good angle and requires you to open and close your hips. And it’s the opening and closing of the hips, putting alternating pressure on your sacrum, that helps the CSF start to flow. Eventually, after decades of Turning, gradually moving down to smaller diameters, you can get to the point in your practice where your inside shoulder is the center and it only takes 3-4 steps to make 1 revolution. This would represent the best tactical footwork as its developing mobility and flexibility in your stepping, and the best chance of stimulating your Glymphatic System because your hips are fully opening and closing.

That White crane sparring is just that- sparring. It’s not Circle Turning. What they’re doing is what everyone does to start a Shuai Jiao match. They just brought that into their sparring from SJ.

Turning (Zhuan) is a specific type of stepping in Baguazhang. The practice becomes circular because you are keeping the angles of your turning steps exactly the same. Which is done purposefully because that helps you get into a meditative state. Practicing in the same quiet, tranquil place everyday, without interruption for at least 1 hour, is also crucial for being in a meditative state.

Edit- you could force the smallest diameter circle sooner, but there will be a more significant amount of time where it feels uncomfortable. There’s not a rule against it, or anything. Everyone should try it. Especially if you’re past the age of 45-48. It’s the Snake. I will post a link of the arm posture, which also develops something. It’s like Ball Holding, only on the diagonal and scrunched down. It looks and you should have the intention, as if you’re holding a newborn baby in your arms.

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Might as well get rid of 9 palace training at the same time
After all it is just 9 trees

D_Glenn wrote:That White crane sparring is just that- sparring. It’s not Circle Turning. What they’re doing is what everyone does to start a Shuai Jiao match. They just brought that into their sparring from SJ.

Might want to read up on the history... To my knowledge, it has nothing to do with SJ let alone being brought into..Should you have other sources stating so would be interested in reading it.


With out clips or videos,,,your post referring to

"you could force the smallest diameter circle sooner, but there will be a more significant amount of time where it feels uncomfortable. There’s not a rule against it, or anything. Everyone should try it. Especially if you’re past the age of 45-48. It’s the Snake. I will post a link of the arm posture, which also develops something. It’s like Ball Holding, only on the diagonal and scrunched down. It looks and you should have the intention, as if you’re holding a newborn baby in your arms."

is just so many words.....is it something you can do, are working on, or felt it through others practice.
Not directly directed against the post or you directly,
just tired of reading things from posters who can write well, but have no work to show the work backing up their writing.

Have seen clips of your work...looks good

happy holidays

windwalker wrote:Always felt the bagua practice was to develop make a center existing outside the body among other things, thoughts ?

How would you make your center exist outside of the body if you don't understand your own center first?

Understanding your own center takes many years. Maybe Bagua and circle walking shouldn't been introduced until you've practiced other internal arts for at least 10 years?

IDK really... But otoh I myself didn't start practicing Bagua until I had practiced Tai Chi for about ten years. Maybe that is also why I found the Zheng style circle walking a liberating practice. On one level I also feel that much Bagua is a more intuitive practice than Tai Chi and Xingyi.