Any other teachers like He Jinghan?

[johnwang]

When you turn and move both hands parallel. You can do the following ways.

1. leading palm face down, back palm face up.
2. leading palm face up, back palm face down.
3. both palms face up.
4. both palms face down.
5. both palms face in.
6. both palms face out.

I also don't see any meaningful applications for 2, 3 and 5.

For health, all training will give you the same health result. For application, some make sense, some don't.

Will you tell your students that all 6 ways are valid? Your students may ask you which way is invalid. What's your explanation to them?

[Steve James]

When you turn and move both hands parallel. You can do the following ways.

1. leading palm face down, back palm face up.
2. leading palm face up, back palm face down.
3. both palms face up.
4. both palms face down.
5. both palms face in.
6. both palms face out.

I also don't see any meaningful applications for 2, 3 and 5.

For health, all training will give you the same health result. For application, some make sense, some don't.

Will you tell your students that all 6 ways are valid? Your students may ask you which way is invalid. What's your explanation to them?

I'd only tell a student what I could/would use it. I disagree that those are the only hand position/combination. It will depend on intent, for ex whether it's a push, pull, grab, or release. Though, I'd agree that 1 and 4 are the most orthodox. But, the others might work for someone else.

[origami_itto]

When you turn and move both hands parallel. You can do the following ways.

1. leading palm face down, back palm face up.
2. leading palm face up, back palm face down.
3. both palms face up.
4. both palms face down.
5. both palms face in.
6. both palms face out.

I also don't see any meaningful applications for 2, 3 and 5.

For health, all training will give you the same health result. For application, some make sense, some don't.

Will you tell your students that all 6 ways are valid? Your students may ask you which way is invalid. What's your explanation to them?

I already explained the palms down above. Context matters.

[Appledog]

[origami_itto]

That lower woman, it looks like her arm is powered by her body but it doesn't appear to be connected to the mass meaningfully. I could be wrong.

[everything]

this chat really makes the idea of baguazhang "palms" a lot more interesting

[Bob]

That lower woman, it looks like her arm is powered by her body but it doesn't appear to be connected to the mass meaningfully. I could be wrong.

You're not wrong - it's a good observation - her lower body doesn't appear well integrated with her upper body although conceptually she seems to understand the idea

[Bhassler]

That lower woman, it looks like her arm is powered by her body but it doesn't appear to be connected to the mass meaningfully. I could be wrong.

An arrow isn't connected to the mass of the bow. The bow still imparts energy to the arrow, and the arrow still gets the job done...

[GrahamB]

Tong Bei always looks very cool, but you'd have to have invested heavily in iron palm methods to swing the back of your hand that hard into something like a human head.

[Bao]

this chat really makes the idea of baguazhang "palms" a lot more interesting

Always interesting to see how the Chinese arts are deeply connected to each other.

That lower woman, it looks like her arm is powered by her body but it doesn't appear to be connected to the mass meaningfully. I could be wrong.

An arrow isn't connected to the mass of the bow. The bow still imparts energy to the arrow, and the arrow still gets the job done...

Don't really know if I should agree or disagree with anyone of you. You can drive the force with the use of the mass, but you can also and/or, support it with mass upon impact. Different mechanics really. Though they would look virtually the same for an untrained eye.

I've been taught several exact same exercises you find in Tongbei from Tai Chi and Bagua teachers. The only one who really knew how to utilize his mass to the maximun was a Tai Chi teacher I met in Beijing. Interestingly enough, his Tai Chi was also probably the "softest" and most supple I've seen. His form looked like slow dance. Otherwise he looked quite strong and sturdy and smoked all of the time.

[origami_itto]

That lower woman, it looks like her arm is powered by her body but it doesn't appear to be connected to the mass meaningfully. I could be wrong.

You're not wrong - it's a good observation - her lower body doesn't appear well integrated with her upper body although conceptually she seems to understand the idea

Thank you for confirming that.

An arrow isn't connected to the mass of the bow. The bow still imparts energy to the arrow, and the arrow still gets the job done...

Sure, just understanding the specific mechanics here. Like she's saying "Through the back" but the arm and hand seems like a wrecking ball on a line, she even says "arms like a rope" so they're more passive and disconnected. In my understanding, it seems like that would limit the force she could express to what could produced with the mass of the arms and hands and that the impact would tend to stick in the looseness of the shoulder there.

What I can't see is if there's some tension or maybe cultivated musculature holding the shape properly that prevents that joint mobility on impact with a slack limb. Maybe that's what the exercise produces is that proper seating and cushioning of the shoulder to avoid injury when you move from leaves to solid objects as targets.

[origami_itto]

Tong Bei always looks very cool, but you'd have to have invested heavily in iron palm methods to swing the back of your hand that hard into something like a human head.

New Roadhouse movie is about to drop: This comment reminds me of the first fight here in the trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0ZsLudtfjI

[everything]

Which ways do palms face in “standard” arm drags

[johnwang]

Which ways do palms face in “standard” arm drags

The hand on the wrist faces down. The hand on the elbow faces up.

Both Yin is not proper. Both Yang is not proper either. One Yin and one Yang is the way to do it.

[everything]

Is that an answer to the #2 not useful?

Maybe some of these are also sideways