the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I'm being curious. Has anyone met or know any teachers who emphasise the path of going deep rather than combat or purely form-based practice?

Obviously they must teach completely under the radar or we would know already.

How would one identify "the path of going deep"?

if we say do not use "force", but use "jin" which follows "qi" which follows "yi", that logically points to the idea we have to deepen use of "yi". of course we need a teacher, but the "yi" and "qi" is in us, not them. so maybe the teacher is there to help identify "the path of going deep" rather than the other way around.

everything wrote:if we say do not use "force", but use "jin" which follows "qi" which follows "yi", that logically points to the idea we have to deepen use of "yi". of course we need a teacher, but the "yi" and "qi" is in us, not them. so maybe the teacher is there to help identify "the path of going deep" rather than the other way around.

I guess I don't want to make any assumptions about what gerard is talking about and would like for him to be more clear.

no space for assumption
quite clear statement

wiesiek wrote:no space for assumption
quite clear statement

I don't see how. "going deep" in what way? One could draw any number of inferences from that statement.

He Jinghan https://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php ... 473ddaee99

Form wise he seems to have a very heavy step, for me that would tend to affect my yi in the moment.

If I were to think "going deep" I would probably think first of Liu Jishun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67JNif-ZPE0

Going deep obviously just means…. Internal

So welcome to another what is internal? thread

C'mon, Graham! It must be far more intellectually complicated than that, right? LoL

Intellectually simple or not, one would expect a word to have some meaning to those that use it. It seems fallacious to speak of subjective impressions in vague metaphor and expect common comprehension to spontaneously emerge.

But i guess the point is moot as the legendary deep masters will forever remain anonymous in wait of the chosen one fit to receive their teachings.

wiesiek wrote:no space for assumption
quite clear statement

Pretty much.

But some asked and here is what it means to go deep:

Body-Mind refinement until the Body is completely open so one can fully understand the Mind and what its exact role is. In the meantime, internal organs must be cleansed and remain in a state of balance; all joints must be opened, tendons stretched and supple; muscles are softened as Spleen is working correctly, creating and distributing the Qi, blood and fluids efficiently (more energy is produced at a lowered energy/food intake).

Focus is on hard work not form let alone fighting others since this kind of work is enormous and it requires a lot of effort, energy and dedication. Grounding, grounding and more grounding; this can't be emphasised good enough.

HJH provides the tools for this type of work and it's up to the student how far they are ready to go.

Any others?

gerard wrote:I'm being curious. Has anyone met or know any teachers who emphasise the path of going deep rather than combat or purely form-based practice?

Obviously they must teach completely under the radar or we would know already.

That's what we do. My teacher wrote a few dozen poems about the tao and about ning she and things like this...

He said that the best thing for me to do is to read the classics (confucious, yellow emperor, etc.) and draw out from them what I can.

We spend a long time on correct positioning. There are stringencies... they are tiring... It is deflating me because honestly I want to know more about combat applications and push hands. But ever deeper and deeper we go. I would as a starting point defer to 'nurturing the small' by sun jian yun and then take questions from there.

gerard wrote:who emphasise the path of going deep rather than combat ...

How can you judge someone's MA level by watching solo training only? MA is 2 persons art. Without getting into combat, deep has no meaning.

I met HJH in Taiwan many years ago. He asked me how one can be good in CMA. I suggested him that one needs to test his CMA skill against as many different opponents as possible. He agreed with me totally at that time.

gerard wrote:

wiesiek wrote:no space for assumption
quite clear statement

Pretty much.

But some asked and here is what it means to go deep:

Body-Mind refinement until the Body is completely open so one can fully understand the Mind and what its exact role is. In the meantime, internal organs must be cleansed and remain in a state of balance; all joints must be opened, tendons stretched and supple; muscles are softened as Spleen is working correctly, creating and distributing the Qi, blood and fluids efficiently (more energy is produced at a lowered energy/food intake).

Focus is on hard work not form let alone fighting others since this kind of work is enormous and it requires a lot of effort, energy and dedication. Grounding, grounding and more grounding; this can't be emphasised good enough.

HJH provides the tools for this type of work and it's up to the student how far they are ready to go.

Any others?

Ah, the mortification of the flesh and the purification of the spirit...

gerard wrote:

wiesiek wrote:no space for assumption
quite clear statement

Pretty much.

But some asked and here is what it means to go deep:

Body-Mind refinement until the Body is completely open so one can fully understand the Mind and what its exact role is. In the meantime, internal organs must be cleansed and remain in a state of balance; all joints must be opened, tendons stretched and supple; muscles are softened as Spleen is working correctly, creating and distributing the Qi, blood and fluids efficiently (more energy is produced at a lowered energy/food intake).

So, Nei gong?

Focus is on hard work not form let alone fighting others since this kind of work is enormous and it requires a lot of effort, energy and dedication. Grounding, grounding and more grounding; this can't be emphasised good enough.

What does the hard work consist of? What kind of exercises? What makes them difficult?
Also... grounding? In what sense? What does grounding mean in this context?

HJH provides the tools for this type of work and it's up to the student how far they are ready to go.

Well that's a bummer I want the teacher who can just teach me the shortcut to the top.

Any others?

Naw man I think he is the only one out there doing Neigong.

gerard wrote:

But some asked and here is what it means to go deep:

Body-Mind refinement until the Body is completely open so one can fully understand the Mind and what its exact role is. In the meantime, internal organs must be cleansed and remain in a state of balance; all joints must be opened, tendons stretched and supple; muscles are softened as Spleen is working correctly, creating and distributing the Qi, blood and fluids efficiently (more energy is produced at a lowered energy/food intake).

Focus is on hard work not form let alone fighting others since this kind of work is enormous and it requires a lot of effort, energy and dedication. Grounding, grounding and more grounding; this can't be emphasised good enough.

wow, this is an incredibly tall/deep order, nvm the "fighting" and "martial". to say only one person is enough of a "guru" who can help you go that deep is unbelievable even though there are many qualified experts who will sell advice or even give good information on many aspects. then, is the individual student able to implement changes? for example, to start more superficially on only one facet, sleep is a "miracle drug" that will help all those aspects of health and more. are you (general you) getting the best quality sleep consistently (95% of the time)? why or why not? a lot goes into this topic, whether you look through a lens of TCM, Huberman Lab, conventional medicine, integrative medicine, functional medicine, etc., etc.

ok if we try to reduce the problem space to conditions like in the hey day of TCM ... only organic foods exist, mostly nutritious plant-based diet, there are no screens with a blue light issue, you wake up at dawn and go outside to work so no sitting at office all day, no lack of vitamin D from lack of sun, regular sleep/wake schedule which helps all your hormone cycles, no fight/flight stress hormones just from driving, no lack of incidental exercise, no ultra processed foods, no Monsanto, no GMO, no jet lag, surrounded by nature and "good qi", no "there's an app for that" even for meditation and calming, etc., etc., then some of this optimal health achievement and being good at neigong (nvm fighting) may be less far-fetched. we have really set ourselves up for failure with our modern conditions, lol. first we have to overcome some of this self-induced "bad qi".