Turn your head back

[johnwang]

practices are different depending on teacher and method....one way might be to look at it as shapes comprising of 3 rings qi, 3 gates..

Allowing the mind to guide the qi, the qi to make the movement..over the actual movement..

If you don't use application as the guideline, a form can be changed beyond recognition.

[Steve James]

I prefer your interpretation to YJM's there. What I don't like? That he doesn't see his back hand. Now, it's not because I don't think his performance demonstrates good gongfu. It's more that he's demonstrating a "form." His specialty is qinna, and his application demo is different. I was trying to find one of him doing a RM application on YT, but no time.

[johnwang]

One of my students want to obtain the 4th degree black belt. I gave him a research topic, "Add leg skill into Chang Taiji form".

At 0.15 - 0.19, he adds in "front cut" into the "repulse monkey". He can add "inner hook" or "outer hook" also.

[windwalker]

practices are different depending on teacher and method....one way might be to look at it as shapes comprising of 3 rings qi, 3 gates..

Allowing the mind to guide the qi, the qi to make the movement..over the actual movement..

If you don't use application as the guideline, a form can be changed beyond recognition.

one might also say if its not done with the requirements in mind it is no longer based on the theory it follows

If you only know how to practice the movements,

but do not understand the requirements for smoothness and evenness, and that the knees of the feet should not swing, the meaning of this pose will be lost. It needs to be practiced properly, and the hands will become numb and swollen when they work hard. This is a good way to test whether there is "Xing Qi".

[windwalker]

All rotations rely on the solid axis of the foot center (from Yongquan to Baihui), rather than being driven by the hands, shoulders, or waist.

This principle was emphasized by the predecessors during class, emphasizing that in practicing Tai Chi, attention should be paid to the source. It should focus on the trunk's growth primarily, rather than putting thoughts into pruning branches or leaves.

The same applies to the "repulse monkey" movement, where the main focus is on the solid axis of the foot center. This video specifically instructs on how to achieve a method where the wrist joints, elbows, and shoulders exert no force. Adhering strictly to the principle of not moving the hands results in more apparent internal movement. Therefore, individuals with chronic conditions of the heart, lungs, liver, stomach, and large intestine, will find unexpected therapeutic effects through consistent practice!

[johnwang]

the heart, lungs, liver, stomach, and large intestine, will find unexpected therapeutic effects through consistent practice!

I'm talking about "combat". You are talking about "health". This is why our discussion will never go anywhere.

[everything]

if neijia has neigong and MA, there is a "venn diagram". otherwise, may as well do your "combat" and "external" and not bother with "internal"

[windwalker]

the heart, lungs, liver, stomach, and large intestine, will find unexpected therapeutic effects through consistent practice!

I'm talking about "combat". You are talking about "health". This is why our discussion will never go anywhere.

My point in showing that clip..was to illustrate that there are different considerations for how something is done taking into account.
What was mentioned

The same applies to the "repulse monkey" movement, where the main focus is on the solid axis of the foot center.
This video specifically instructs on how to achieve a method where the wrist joints, elbows, and shoulders exert no force

You and some of the others all mentioned external viewpoints based on a limited idea of what a certain movement considered as a technique is useful or not / can do or not do.

My own viewpoint stems from qualifying factors that give or enable one to have or develop what it's called "internal power or force " developed through movement adhering to certain principles thought to foster it, regardless of what it could or may be used for....health, fighting, ect.

Different view points for discussion help to illustrate and appreciate differences in approach not about being correct right or wrong....

Everyone has their own practice....

[origami_itto]

In application, the eyes don't matter, they lie.

In training, they condition the yi.

Yi and intention is forward while retreating, the rear hand should skirt the absolute edge of the peripheral vision and be seen.

[Bao]

How you look depends on application? Eh... Not really, or rather mostly not. Most people learn movement before application and look how they are taught to look regardless of the application. But it you think you should always change the direction you watch, then does this mean that most people only know one application? Of course not. And also, many have several applications in mind when they perform a movement, not only one.

What is rather obvious, of course, is that people who train Tai Chi for martial arts and those who train for health only or as qigong use their eyes differently. The overwhelming majority of the health/qigong practitioners will follow the rear hand all the way when doing the "...repulse monkey", while you see many more martial arts oriented individuals keeping their head forward.

One of my students want to obtain the 4th degree black belt. I gave him a research topic, "Add leg skill into Chang Taiji form".

At 0.15 - 0.19, he adds in "front cut" into the "repulse monkey". He can add "inner hook" or "outer hook" also.

In Yang Jwing Ming's first edition of Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan, the photos of "...repulse monkey" showed a back kick at each step. No mention of "lifting" an opponent though, there was no shuaijiao throw or application indicated.

[johnwang]

If you throw punch from your waist, do your eyes look at your punching fist starting from your waist and all the way to the target? Of course not. Your eyes will look at your target instead. The repulse monkey is no different than a punch.

[johnwang]

many have several applications in mind when they perform a movement, not only one.

I don't know how you can have more than 1 application in mind at the same time. What if application 1 and application 2 contradict to each other?

For example, if your repulse monkey is to

1. fingers attack your opponent's eyes, you have look forward.
2. strike at your opponent's groin behind you, you have to look back.

1 and 2 just can't exist at the same time. You either turn your head, or you don't. Also, if you attack your opponent's

- groin, your hand has to drop low.
- eyes, your hand has to remain high.

Your hand can't be low and high at the same time.

[Bao]

many have several applications in mind when they perform a movement, not only one.

I don't know how you can have more than 1 application in mind at the same time. What if application 1 and application 2 contradict to each other?

One movement has the potential of many applications. One application has the potential to change, into another application. In Tai Chi, you should always position yourself so you have the ability to change according to circumstances. If your mind is locked, your body is locked.

And by the way, there's something called peripheral vision, you should be able to use the whole visual field, and not limited your vision one single focal point.

[johnwang]

One movement has the potential of many applications.

I you use your hand to pull your opponent's

- arm, your pulling hand should be in front of your chest.
- leg, your pulling hand can be on your waist/knee level.

Again, your pulling hand can't be at 2 different places at the same time.

In this video, his hand is on the waist.

[Bao]

Again, your pulling hand can't be at 2 different places at the same time.

I wrote "have.. in mind", not "perform".