dedicated to the discussion of the chinese internal martial arts of xingyiquan, baguazhang, taijiquan, related arts, and anything else best discussed over a bottle of rum
windwalker wrote:practices are different depending on teacher and method....one way might be to look at it as shapes comprising of 3 rings qi, 3 gates..
Allowing the mind to guide the qi, the qi to make the movement..over the actual movement..
If you don't use application as the guideline, a form can be changed beyond recognition.
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
I prefer your interpretation to YJM's there. What I don't like? That he doesn't see his back hand. Now, it's not because I don't think his performance demonstrates good gongfu. It's more that he's demonstrating a "form." His specialty is qinna, and his application demo is different. I was trying to find one of him doing a RM application on YT, but no time.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
windwalker wrote:practices are different depending on teacher and method....one way might be to look at it as shapes comprising of 3 rings qi, 3 gates..
Allowing the mind to guide the qi, the qi to make the movement..over the actual movement..
If you don't use application as the guideline, a form can be changed beyond recognition.
one might also say if its not done with the requirements in mind it is no longer based on the theory it follows
but do not understand the requirements for smoothness and evenness, and that the knees of the feet should not swing, the meaning of this pose will be lost. It needs to be practiced properly, and the hands will become numb and swollen when they work hard. This is a good way to test whether there is "Xing Qi".
" It’s all in the Form; but only if it is, ALL in the Form."
This principle was emphasized by the predecessors during class, emphasizing that in practicing Tai Chi, attention should be paid to the source. It should focus on the trunk's growth primarily, rather than putting thoughts into pruning branches or leaves.
The same applies to the "repulse monkey" movement, where the main focus is on the solid axis of the foot center. This video specifically instructs on how to achieve a method where the wrist joints, elbows, and shoulders exert no force. Adhering strictly to the principle of not moving the hands results in more apparent internal movement. Therefore, individuals with chronic conditions of the heart, lungs, liver, stomach, and large intestine, will find unexpected therapeutic effects through consistent practice!
" It’s all in the Form; but only if it is, ALL in the Form."
if neijia has neigong and MA, there is a "venn diagram". otherwise, may as well do your "combat" and "external" and not bother with "internal"
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong / better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise / “most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
windwalker wrote:the heart, lungs, liver, stomach, and large intestine, will find unexpected therapeutic effects through consistent practice!
I'm talking about "combat". You are talking about "health". This is why our discussion will never go anywhere.
My point in showing that clip..was to illustrate that there are different considerations for how something is done taking into account. What was mentioned
The same applies to the "repulse monkey" movement, where the main focus is on the solid axis of the foot center. This video specifically instructs on how to achieve a method where the wrist joints, elbows, and shoulders exert no force
You and some of the others all mentioned external viewpoints based on a limited idea of what a certain movement considered as a technique is useful or not / can do or not do.
My own viewpoint stems from qualifying factors that give or enable one to have or develop what it's called "internal power or force " developed through movement adhering to certain principles thought to foster it, regardless of what it could or may be used for....health, fighting, ect.
Different view points for discussion help to illustrate and appreciate differences in approach not about being correct right or wrong....
Everyone has their own practice....
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" It’s all in the Form; but only if it is, ALL in the Form."
How you look depends on application? Eh... Not really, or rather mostly not. Most people learn movement before application and look how they are taught to look regardless of the application. But it you think you should always change the direction you watch, then does this mean that most people only know one application? Of course not. And also, many have several applications in mind when they perform a movement, not only one.
What is rather obvious, of course, is that people who train Tai Chi for martial arts and those who train for health only or as qigong use their eyes differently. The overwhelming majority of the health/qigong practitioners will follow the rear hand all the way when doing the "...repulse monkey", while you see many more martial arts oriented individuals keeping their head forward.
johnwang wrote:One of my students want to obtain the 4th degree black belt. I gave him a research topic, "Add leg skill into Chang Taiji form".
At 0.15 - 0.19, he adds in "front cut" into the "repulse monkey". He can add "inner hook" or "outer hook" also.
In Yang Jwing Ming's first edition of Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan, the photos of "...repulse monkey" showed a back kick at each step. No mention of "lifting" an opponent though, there was no shuaijiao throw or application indicated.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog) - Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert - To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
If you throw punch from your waist, do your eyes look at your punching fist starting from your waist and all the way to the target? Of course not. Your eyes will look at your target instead. The repulse monkey is no different than a punch.
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
Bao wrote:many have several applications in mind when they perform a movement, not only one.
I don't know how you can have more than 1 application in mind at the same time. What if application 1 and application 2 contradict to each other?
One movement has the potential of many applications. One application has the potential to change, into another application. In Tai Chi, you should always position yourself so you have the ability to change according to circumstances. If your mind is locked, your body is locked.
And by the way, there's something called peripheral vision, you should be able to use the whole visual field, and not limited your vision one single focal point.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog) - Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert - To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Again, your pulling hand can't be at 2 different places at the same time.
I wrote "have.. in mind", not "perform".
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog) - Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert - To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau