The Heart and Spine are Important

[GrahamB]

I don’t really care what theory you have of 6 harmonies Bruce - I’m just not interested in you, so please stop asking me questions.thanks.

[BruceP]

I don't have a single theory about anything having to do with IMA

I've only ever applied theory to making things like knives, bows, rafters and such

[ThomasK]

I don't understand how anyone can throw out the 3 internal harmonies completely and still think he's talking about Tai Chi.

What are the 6 harmonies in your mind, Bruce?

[GrahamB]

Just don't call it a theory, ok?

[everything]

what are we gonna talk about lol? i'm sure jw will post something interesting and concrete about this or that move soon

[ThomasK]

Idk I'm sure there's plenty.

Saying I don't have a theory in regards to something you supposedly practice yourself just means you have no clue what it is you're practicing and with what you're practicing.

It's like saying I'm a great cook but I have no idea of flavor combinations or stuff that goes well together.

In Bruce's case, imo it was a lame boast. That's all. I think Graham was calling Bruce out on that too.

[GrahamB]

What? Me be sarcastic in tone?? I've never heard of such a thing! Just ask Wayne.

[BruceP]

When I say tai chi has both methods what u and I consider to be tai chi might differ
I stopped fighting in tournaments in the 70’s because I could not see the value
It has only got worse
I have yet to see Systema proving itself in the MMA but u still see value in it

There is a lot of overlap in our respective understandings regards tai chi. I'd say I agree with at least half of what you've shared here over the years, and mostly those agreements are on the HOW of the thing, so it's unfair to just disregard your ideas on the things I don't agree with. I chalk it up to the different life-paths we've traveled in our 30+ years of practicing tjq. You are a stickler when it comes to forms and your understanding of tjq's fightiness comes, at least in part, from your understanding of how the forms work. The forms are something I don't really care about when it comes to the boxing method. I get the fightiness from the 8 and Five as stand-alone material augmented by Nine Palace Stepping and other footwork because, IME that's all a person needs in order to understand the tactical aspects of the boxing method.

At the same time, though, your understanding of how the form works as a means of accessing the internal method of tjq is very much in line with my own at least in what you've pointed to and hinted at regards the particulars of the form(s) themselves. It's fun watching people talk right past those insights without any pause or enquiry...

I've been reading here long enough to notice consistency in what the 'old guard' at RSF has shown (or not) in their discussing their personal understanding of how this stuff works on a practical level. There are 7 people actively posting here whose tune hasn't changed since I've been on RSF (and a few not actively posting or have since been banned). That's an important thing to watch for. I dunno a word for the kind of dishonesty that's at play when those teaching these arts flip-flop, U-turn, and straight up contradict themselves, and they don't even seem to care. Some of them wear it as a badge. Bless their students...

As one of the non-fighty teachers here once wrote; "Get in the ring and prove it" Yeah, sport combat should never be the goal, but it sure is a good way to test the learning. When I asked how many teachers here, it wasn't rhetorical. John Wang is one of those 7 and his training of others has produced some fighty people who have shown well in competition in their testing the material he teaches.

Getting back to the idea that tai chi has both methods, what I've done with the learning model Souders talks about in that video isn't really compatible with other learning models. I don't believe in techniques or drilling techniques, so that right there is a point of separation between intuitive learning and the other. Neither of 'both methods' is even remotely similar to the learning model I've used in the training of tjq, btw.

[ThomasK]

Lots of talking, little of value. Attempts to project a image of seniority and competence by association. No success.

How do you compare yourself to someone else when you have no theory, as you said?

[wayne hansen]

Too much for me to comment on there
G It is hard to be sarcastic in print it becomes plain speaking without inflection
It is hard to talk of 6 harmonies when basic structure is lacking

[BruceP]

Too much for me to comment on there

No worries
Just some wanderings of our accord and discord

It is hard to talk of 6 harmonies when basic structure is lacking

Are you talking about the structure of the body, or the training?

[wayne hansen]

I was talking about the body but it applies to training even more

[BruceP]

I was talking about the body but it applies to training even more

Agreed on the latter but not the former.

It can be worked and trained while seated, standing or lying down - or while fighting at distance, in tie-ups or on the ground. Maybe by 'structure', you mean something different?

As to how the training is structured to put Six Harmonies into the body, there are very specific ways...

The Six Are One

[HotSoup]

The one is none.

The problem is that those actively seeking didactics usually haven’t gotten it (yet). When you know what it is, you just train it all the time and enjoy yourself. You don’t need explanations anymore.

[wayne hansen]

I don’t even think about the six harmonies
They are like the Tao I just take them as the base
Sure it should work in any environ on all levels
I had a friend who was hosting a BJJ seminar at his school for all his black belts
I told two of my female students about it
One was also a Shorinji Kempo black belt
The other one pure tai chi
The teacher pulled them aside and said how come you both get it and all these male black belts don’t
What do you train
Stefie answered
Just a little Tai Chi
I add it is like the Tao it exists everywhere
Be water my friend be water