the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

The 108 moves Yang Taiji form has one right leg "outside crescent kick". I assume the left leg "outside crescent kick" is not in the form because the form creator might assume that students could reverse the form themselves. But what I don't understand is why the "inside crescent kick" is not in the form. We may assume that if the form creator understood the "outside crescent kick", he should also understand the "inside crescent kick". Why did he include one but not the other?

What's your opinion on this?

- The "outside crescent kick" is similar to "hook kick".
- The "inside crescent kick" is similar to "roundhouse kick".

When you train circular kick, if you train inside-out, there is no reason that you don't train outside-in.

It's also like if you train footwork that go clockwise, there is no reason that you don't train footwork that go counter-clockwise.

That's a good question.

Many CMA styles do only have one or the other (right or left).
For example, some longfist schools only do the jumping inside crescent (xuanfengjiao) but not the jumping outside crescent kick.
It may just be that the form creators thought that one worked well for them, while the other did not.
Maybe the inside crescent kick doesn't work well with the taiji strategy?

In terms of kicks:
- Some Korean styles have a reverse roundhouse kick as the opposite of a roundhouse kick instead. (Like roundhouse, but point the leg opposite direction)
- Another opposite of hook kick is in a sense the yuanyangjiao kick (in chuojiao, etc.). (Like hook kick but vertical instead of horizontal)

Taiji certainly has only a few kicks though (2?).
In that way it is similar to most xingyi schools, too.

edededed wrote:some longfist schools only do the jumping inside crescent (xuanfengjiao) but not the jumping outside crescent kick.

At 0.28 - 0.31, you can see both "jumping outside crescent kick" and "jumping inside crescent kick".

The jumping

- outside crescent kick has both right outside crescent kick and left inside crescent kick.
- inside crescent kick has both left outside crescent kick and right inside crescent kick.

It's well balanced. The form creator for this video has better logic.

The second kick in the form separate legs or chicken wing kick is an outside crescent kick

johnwang wrote:

edededed wrote:some longfist schools only do the jumping inside crescent (xuanfengjiao) but not the jumping outside crescent kick.

At 0.28 - 0.31, you can see both "jumping outside crescent kick" and "jumping inside crescent kick".

The jumping

- outside crescent kick has both right outside crescent kick and left inside crescent kick.
- inside crescent kick has both left outside crescent kick and right inside crescent kick.

It's well balanced. The form creator for this video has better logic.

It looks to me like two outside-inside kicks (xuanfengjiao), one left and one right; but maybe the flash obscured the jumping outside crescent kick (tengkongbailiantui).

I learned a different version of this form (silubenda) that has only xuanfengjiao (no tengkongbailiantui). It does have standing bailiantui in it, though.
I don't know which form may be the "correct" version, I suppose Shandong had various versions of it.
But for longfist/mantis, they don't need to include every punch and kick in one form anyway - they have many forms, so some techniques might just be in another form.
Like for silubenda, forms like xiaohuyan are quite similar but have some different techniques - not sure why the designed them that way (e.g. why they chose to put some techniques in one and some in the other).
Anyway, so hard to compare the logic.

Of course it’s there - you just have to do the form backwards!

If the taiji music gets played backwards too, does it become spooky and scary?

You load your kit for the mission.

In 108 moves Yang Taiji form, the punching skill is well balance.

- straight (vital punch).
- hook punch (striking tiger, twin peaks to the ears).
- uppercut (snake extend tone).
- hammer fist (turn around hammer).

One may expect the kicking skill should be well balance as well.

Well wayne says the separate foot is an outside crescent kick.
I am not sure that the kick as you describe it really fits the strategy, though. Usually in Taiji we want to be holding on to them when we kick. An outside kick means we're going inside the guard, but with an inside I'd think the bridge would get in the way?

If one follows the notion that in application kicks are kept low, then the stepping in the form practices all the various low kicks, hooks, sweeps, etc. In that case, the high kicks would be for building flexibility and athleticism, so they would only need one kind of crescent kick, as the flexibility is more or less the same for both.

Well, form creators could probably do anything in their form on either side. They chose what they considered to be necessary for practice, not everything that could be practiced. Besides, it's possible for anyone to simply do their form on the opposite side.

Ito if u don’t want me picking on your understanding stop saying silly shit
He asked where the kicks where not how you use them

johnwang wrote:In 108 moves Yang Taiji form, the punching skill is well balance.

- straight (vital punch).
- hook punch (striking tiger, twin peaks to the ears).
- uppercut (snake extend tone).
- hammer fist (turn around hammer).

One may expect the kicking skill should be well balance as well.

Generally 5 punches + the twin ear hammering and striking tiger (7 total?).

For kicks, I guess that the general Yang form has only 2-3 kicks in it.
Some Yang Banhou/fast versions said to be older have additional kicks also (e.g. jump kick, stamping kick, etc.) - it could be that Yang Chengfu and others later removed them...