Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

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Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby origami_itto on Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:39 pm

Recently I’ve been made aware of some theories about the meaning behind “Single Whip” 單鞭 (dān biān)

Basically the claim is that the posture resembles a farmer carrying something on a pole or yoke and that the name refers to this yoke.

This yoke or shoulder pole is called 扁擔 (biǎndan)

So right away, simply linguistically, this claim is a little bit problematic.

English Character Pinyin Romanization.
Single Whip 單 鞭 dān biān
Shoulder Pole 扁 擔 biǎndan
We’re dealing with four completely different characters with completely different meanings. The dan in biandan is POLE not single.

To a native Chinese speaker this is like comparing apples to tennis balls. It’s just a ridiculous claim.

But that’s not really sufficient proof, let’s look to the historical record.
Last edited by origami_itto on Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby Bao on Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:20 pm

Yes, a "bian" is a sword breaker, not a whip. The name is in the link you provided. It's a metal rod used to defend against and destroy sharp weapons.

So what is Dan? I don't agree with the assessment in the link. I don't think the original meaning is "single".

單鞭 (dān biān) or single whip is so named in similarity to the Single Edged Sword “单刀” (dān dāo) and I believe it is a reference to the similarity between Sabre (or Broadsword) and single stick / truncheon techniques. Generally speaking the common Dan Dao is simply referred to as “Dao” while the larger versrsions are “Da Dao” or “Kwon Dao”. So “Dan Dao” or “Dan Bian” can be seen to mean a single weapon instead of one in each hand.


This is not perfectly true. The two handed miao dao and Japanese sword are also referred to as "dan dao" in Chinese. And a "Kwan dao" can also be called a dan dao. The word dan dao just means that you use just one sword separately. Separately as in not accompanied with another sword or shield.

Some say this expression with "dan" comes from the use of kitchen knives (also a "knife" or dao) as you use it separately (you need to use the other hand to either hold the foods you are chopping or you use the other hand to push or support the back of the knife). So this expression of "dan" is specifically used with "dao". Not other types of swords, spears or other weapons, it's connected to "dao" specifically, the knife. So from the perspective of a "sword breaker", I don't really see use of "dan" as obvious as the author, though you can certainly use some "dao techniques" with a sword breaker.

As other people have suggested, Dan probably referred to the family name 单, or more specifically "Dan Bian" or "single whip" referred to a story about the famous general Dan Xiongxin 单雄信 using a sword breaker to defeat an enemy. John Fung summed it up neatly a few years ago in a Facebook group:

Came from the story “尉遲恭戰單雄信,「單鞭奪槊」救駕唐王李世民。” i.e., “Wei Cigong defeating Dan Xiongxin to rescue Tang Emperor Li Siwen with the move Single Whip while Capturing Spear”
The Wei was fighting Dan on horseback, when he suddenly let go of his long weapon, grabbed onto Dan’s spear with one hand, pulled out his short Iron Whip and smashed Dan in the middle of his chest and killed him.
Single whip in Tai Chi was most likely named after this. You can see the parallel in the stance (riding on horseback), right hook hand (grabbing the spear), and left palm (Iron Whip attack to the chest).


If you look at the Wu/Hao and Sun versions of "Single whip", you can imagine the movement described much more clearly. In older Yang small/medium frame performances as well as in Wu (jianquan) style you can also see the single whip as a splitting motion with both hands moving out simultaneously. Shaolin styles have similar movements as well, often performed with both fists clenched.

....

Sword breaker:


Image

Image
Last edited by Bao on Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby origami_itto on Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:04 am

Thank you for reading.

Bao wrote:
Came from the story “尉遲恭戰單雄信,「單鞭奪槊」救駕唐王李世民。” i.e., “Wei Cigong defeating Dan Xiongxin to rescue Tang Emperor Li Siwen with the move Single Whip while Capturing Spear”
The Wei was fighting Dan on horseback, when he suddenly let go of his long weapon, grabbed onto Dan’s spear with one hand, pulled out his short Iron Whip and smashed Dan in the middle of his chest and killed him.
Single whip in Tai Chi was most likely named after this. You can see the parallel in the stance (riding on horseback), right hook hand (grabbing the spear), and left palm (Iron Whip attack to the chest).


I was seeing a strong similarity with the various poses of Zhao Gong Ming.

Image
Image
Image

This article on Zhao Gong Ming says that after he ascended to heaven as an immortal, the Jade Emperor sent him down to gaurd Zhang Dao Ling when he made the pills of immortality. https://dao-world.org/2021/04/25/genera ... gong-ming/
In heaven, he guards the cauldron where Celestial Master Zhang brews the golden elixir and dispenses it when it's complete.

So, like... if one were to be consciously designing a system of Taoist alchemy wound up with a martial arts discipline, I don't see how there is possibly a better folk deity to evoke at this point in the practice. we've already done the four sealings and six closings and either just did or are about to evoke the buddha's warrior attendant that pounds the mortar, is that to prepare an ingredient for the elixir?
Last edited by origami_itto on Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby ThomasK on Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:12 am

What comes up when stomping is more interesting than what goes down, imo :-)
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby johnwang on Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:21 am

I believe Taiji 'single whip" came from long fist Tan Tui 1st road "顺步单鞭势". The purpose is to stretch right arm, body, left arm as a straight line.

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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby origami_itto on Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:25 am

johnwang wrote:I believe Taiji 'single whip" came from long fist Tan Tui 1st road "顺步单鞭势". The purpose is to stretch right arm, body, left arm as a straight line.

Image


And further back from this, Qi Ji Jiang's 4th road!

抝單鞭黃花緊進披挑腿左右難防搶步上拳連劈揭沈香勢推倒泰山
Image
Last edited by origami_itto on Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby Bao on Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:45 am

origami_itto wrote:I was seeing a strong similarity with the various poses of Zhao Gong Ming.

This article on Zhao Gong Ming says that after he ascended to heaven as an immortal, the Jade Emperor sent him down to gaurd Zhang Dao Ling when he made the pills of immortality. https://dao-world.org/2021/04/25/genera ... gong-ming/
In heaven, he guards the cauldron where Celestial Master Zhang brews the golden elixir and dispenses it when it's complete.

So, like... if one were to be consciously designing a system of Taoist alchemy wound up with a martial arts discipline, I don't see how there is possibly a better folk deity to evoke at this point in the practice.


I was most discussing the origin of the name "dan bian" with the characters 单鞭, as "single whip". But I actually agree. Not that I see much similarities with the postures, but Zhao Gongming is often portrait riding a tiger or a horse, so a riding posture makes sense... I myself haven't given the mythology around Zhang Daoling a lot of thoughts. Historically speaking, the real Zhang Daoling was the "founder" of religious Daoism. But... one of my teachers, a martial arts historian, claimed that the original name of "single whip" should be dan bian with these characters: " 丹变 " or "elixir change". Yes, "dan" as in dantian or the pills of immortality. So there you have it, the connection to Zhang Daoling and the pills. And then you have the connection to "General Dan's sword breaker" through Zhao Gongming's weapon. From this perspective, the change, or misunderstanding, of the name and its characters make sense.

I would suggest the name "Danbian" as in "single change" in Bagua should have the same origin, but this is more my own speculation.

we've already done the four sealings and six closings and either just did or are about to evoke the buddha's warrior attendant that pounds the mortar, is that to prepare an ingredient for the elixir?


I would also suggest that "the buddha's warrior attendant pounds the mortar" is a later addition to Taijiquan. But the movement could very well originate in daoist practice.
Last edited by Bao on Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby ThomasK on Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:55 am

I think it's interesting that the IMAs may have ritualism built into them as well.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby Bao on Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:23 am

ThomasK wrote:I think it's interesting that the IMAs may have ritualism built into them as well.


Yeah, isn't it? Here in the west we are so used to that everything is separated into "this" and "that". But there's a "Chinese" thing, that something can be many things at once. This is obviously true of the Chinese characters that are symbolic and can be a verb, noun, adjective etc depending how they are used. The same goes for Tai Chi movements. They can be used for striking, throwing, qinna or whatever depending on your own interpretation. So Chinese traditional thought and Chinese thinking in general is contextual. In China dance, art, religious practice, health practice and martial arts blended together in a kind of mixed soup. Everything condensed to something that can express everything. What you do with it, the purpose of the practice, becomes more a contextual issue than a question of the practice itself. So if you want to understand Chinese culture in general, you need to get rid of the western thinking of dichotomies as "either black or white", and "either new or old."

Btw, "silk reeling" has roots in religious ritual as well.
Last edited by Bao on Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby GrahamB on Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:55 am

Nice discussion! I always think that the Chen form looks the most "theatrical" of all the Tai Chi forms. It looks like it's designed for performance to me - with the foot stomping and slow/fast movements.

I think it was me that put forward the idea that Dan Bian was the shoulder stick, it was just a theory of mine based on the way the posture looks, but I'm equally happy with the idea (and also mentioned) that it's a 'sword breaker' rod - the main point of what I was saying was that you are not performing a whip-like action in the movement, which related to the name, which is quite often stated by others. I don't know anything about the "dan" being a single piece of metal (as opposed to a sectional weapon) or a family name.

There are various Kung Fu manuals of "iron whip" forms out there showing the sword breaker rod. "Tiger tail" is used often:

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... tion-whip/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JBFwGluhrI

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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby everything on Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:14 am

Questions... for those sword breaker weapons, is there an outside-in, then inside-out kind of motion? where is the attacking contact point from the sword breaking weapon to the sword/hand/arm? is it a dis-arm type attack?

way more broadly, if people are fighting with swords, why does one carry around "anti sword" weapons (instead of being ready with one's own sword)? this is all too mind boggling. I've never been interested in so many of these weapons. people were crazily inventive.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby origami_itto on Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:48 am

everything wrote:Questions... for those sword breaker weapons, is there an outside-in, then inside-out kind of motion? where is the attacking contact point from the sword breaking weapon to the sword/hand/arm? is it a dis-arm type attack?

way more broadly, if people are fighting with swords, why does one carry around "anti sword" weapons (instead of being ready with one's own sword)? this is all too mind boggling. I've never been interested in so many of these weapons. people were crazily inventive.


There's a link to a manual about the bian in the article. It was written in the early 1500s and states directly that the techniques for the tie bian are mostly the same as the techniques for the dan dao.

Michelle Yeoh uses one in crouching tiger, hidden dragon. She picks it up around 2:55 after she realizes she isn't strong enough for the half moon halberd. :D

It is a SERIOUS weapon, particularly in an age where metallurgy meant swords got dull quickly and broke frequently.

Yu Shu Lien (Michelle Yeoh) fights Jen Yu (Ziyi Zhang) as she wields The Green Destiny.
Last edited by origami_itto on Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby everything on Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:31 am

particularly in an age where metallurgy meant swords got dull quickly and broke frequently.


hmm.... never thought about the dulling and breakage. crazy what humans were up to (and it's still bonkers. we really are the worst).

forgot how great that scene and entire movie are. so her weapon really has a "hook" shape, kinda like the single whip shape (although I think Sun and Wu/Hao keep an open hand)
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby origami_itto on Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:50 pm

everything wrote:
particularly in an age where metallurgy meant swords got dull quickly and broke frequently.


hmm.... never thought about the dulling and breakage. crazy what humans were up to (and it's still bonkers. we really are the worst).

forgot how great that scene and entire movie are. so her weapon really has a "hook" shape, kinda like the single whip shape (although I think Sun and Wu/Hao keep an open hand)


No that is the hook sword. After those then after the aborted attempt with the half moon halberd. The one I'm talking about is a solid brass rod that she uses from 2:55 - 3:48
This should take you right to it: https://youtu.be/DzkhVVFRIIg?si=oaVDgNBGyEiYpvhQ&t=174

As far as metallurgy, they had quality but it was expensive. That's why these "legendary swords" like the green destiny came to be, they were just examples of really fine metallurgy and craftsmanship that chewed up the garbage they came against.

It's essentially the Chinese equivalent of a mace or war hammer.

Once I put this together I couldn't get "Sword Breaker" out of my head whenever I thought about single whip and the power expressed in the posture.
Last edited by origami_itto on Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

Postby D_Glenn on Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:16 pm

I’m going to have disagree with the Sword Breaker. It is an old weapon but it had segments and functioned like a whip.

I think Wuyidizi said it best
One more detail: it's called single whip because it's a whipping motion, you do this big arc, then at the end you snap back in a small circle like you're cracking the whip. I don't know how to explain the physics of this, but I have practiced this a lot with a 30 ft long battle rope with another person holding the other end, when I snap, the waves' amplitude and frequency are different, the power a lot stronger, and the other person cannot hold on to it (he gets pulled suddenly to the opposite direction toward me at the end).


In ysb baguazhang there’s a method that uses the back hand shape of Single Whip and the whole arm is whipped around. It can hit with the wrist or with the fingertips. We have a strengthening posture to develop the hand shape. My teacher can whip his hand out and break your teeth inside your closed mouth with his fingertips. But it can strike pretty much anywhere except the boney parts of the skull. The wrist can whip up under the jaw.
This hand shape is like the tip of a birds wing when all it’s feathers are gone.
Last edited by D_Glenn on Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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