Dan Bian: Dispelling Some Myths About Single Whip

[Steve James]

Well, accepting the sword breaker idea, I agree with Bhassler that a whip-like action is needed. As described, a typical sword breaker is at least twice as heavy as a jian the same length. So, it has to be used differently, swung, but not like a dao. The 'whip' action has to be used because the power can't come from the arm, only through the arm. Same idea for a long pole, except using one arm.

By my bedroom door, I have a 40" length of 3/4" steel pipe. It was primarily for jian practice, but the idea was/is to hold it at arm's length and 'twirl' (?) it. Never thought of it as a sword breaker. Essentially, it's just practice in getting force/whatever from the floor through the wrist. People who're stronger than me can probably do it without using the body.

Wayne mentioned something about having the wrist grabbed, and I think it brings up the point that defense and offense movements are interchangeable. I was taught that, done correctly, everything was a counter.

Imo, it's also true that SW is not one thing. or at least it can be separated into a beginning, middle, and final section. Although, I've seen examples of people explaining it as assuming two or more opponents, etc. Imo, the footwork is there to show a basic way to turn (almost) 180 degrees (whatever one decides to do at the end). The middle section, as we've discussed before, had its own name -and can be discussed on its own. The last part is interesting because it has to lead into Raise hands -(not Play guitar).

This is what make tcc interesting. For ex., where in 'your' form does the hooked hand appear? Then, is it only useful at that particular level as in the SW? Where else could it be applied, and how? It's not as if I don't expect people know or have ideas. It all depends on how anyone can imagine it to be used. Same with every other form. I was taught to imagine the opponent was my size and that I should adjust everything to my eye, chest, waist, etc height. But, an opponent may be shorter or taller, so applying the form has to be adjustable.

[robert]

I’m traveling around Taiwan and having trouble posting in some areas. Chen Xin seems to think it’s a single whip, just like the name, go figure.

The name ‘Single Whip’ derives from the position of the arms: the left hand is generally placed leftward while the right arm is placed in front and slight- ly alongside the right ribs at shoulder level. The word ‘single’ comes from the fact that while both arms are stretched out, only one hand is activated.
The word ‘whip’ means ‘pain and punishment’. For this position, the arms are stretched in a form of a whip, that is, the left hand assumes the leading role and is placed at the level of the navel by drawing a small turn outward, the palm facing up. The right hand moves forward in a semi-circle. Both hands move in a synchronized fashion, their shen and qi echoing each other like two people talking face-to-face, breath to breath.

[origami_itto]

It may be insightful to some practitioners of the Yang, Wu and Chen styles to focus on the rear hand when performing Single Whip, like the Wu Hao and Sun styles do, envisioning the hooked hand executing a quick, flexible whipping strike with the back of the wrist, as one example, rather than always focusing on the open front hand. This creates an entirely different energy dynamic which can be very interesting.

You could also even consider the hook to be the handle of a flexible leather whip and your unified arms across your back and shoulders out to your opposite fingers to be the fall.

So much to think about.

My next article will be "Definitively settling the question of who invented and named Taijiquan"

[D_Glenn]

Your arm is what is like a chain/ whip. If your hand was holding a weapon you wouldn’t be able to swing it in a small circle close to your body like this.

Dan Bian at 5:30

[origami_itto]

If your hand was holding a weapon you wouldn’t be able to swing it in a small circle close to your body like this.

Not sure exactly what part of the 11 minute video you mean there but this claim is entirely untrue, I will be putting a video out demonstrating this.

[Steve James]

Looks like D-Glenn is talking about the body mechanics for the right hand in SW (at the beginning of the clip). My only question is why there's an assumption of holding a weapon. For ex., instead of comparing the final position to anything, just try holding a weapon in either hand and do your SW. What works? What doesn't? Does any work better at any point, or are some not possible at some or all points?

I mean. I could imagine holding a spear at the final point of SW, but ...

[wayne hansen]

So do we hold a sparrow
Sit on a tiger
Levitate to do cloud hands
It is a métaphore

[D_Glenn]

In my post I put the timestamp

“Dan Bian at 5:30” means Single Whip [applications] at five minutes and thirty seconds is roughly the point where you will want to skip to in order to see what I was referring to.

[Steve James]

Ooops.

[D_Glenn]

Some people are talking about how one uses a weapon. While the name of the move, is describing how the arm is used like the weapon (a chain-like whip). Each joint needs to be bent, loose and slack in order to evade the force an opponent is giving you as they try to use a qinna on you. After the redirection the arm whips back out and attacks.

If the arm was likened to a sword breaker, as some people are claiming, then it would just be a stiff arm, with no ability to bend and move at any of the 3 major joints.

.

[origami_itto]

In my post I put the timestamp

“Dan Bian at 5:30” means Single Whip [applications] at five minutes and thirty seconds is roughly the point where you will want to skip to in order to see what I was referring to.

Thank you! Yes I see what you mean, but let me pose this observation.

If you grab a person's wrist or fingers, in many ways you can then treat their arm like your Broadsword.

Regarding the geometry of room to swing, you can see there if he has a grip on their "sparrow's tail", the arm occupies the space the Broadsword or Bian would occupy relative to the body, so you can see how there is plenty of room to maneuver it.

I'm definitely shooting a video for this tomorrow.

[D_Glenn]

Watch the video more closely, the movement from the form is demonstrated when Chen Xiao Wang is defending against the finger grabbing qinna that his student is using.

[D_Glenn]

OTT- There is an idea has existed in the Chinese Martial Art community for hundreds and hundreds of years- it’s that the Ultimate Martial Arts form would be an art where every movement in the form would contain both the attack or offensive movement and simultaneously contain the countermove against that attack. I think the peculiarity of Chen Taijiquan and strict manner in which it’s handed down is because it almost has that. That’s why they named it the Grand Ultimate.

[origami_itto]

OTT- There is an idea has existed in the Chinese Martial Art community for hundreds and hundreds of years- it’s that the Ultimate Martial Arts form would be an art where every movement in the form would contain both the attack or offensive movement and simultaneously contain the countermove against that attack.

That's a neat idea. I don't know how realistic it is, depending on how you define "movement". In Yang style, each of the 8 gates is negated by one of the others. It seems silly to think something would defeat itself. That's force against force, isn't it?

I think the peculiarity of Chen Taijiquan and strict manner in which it’s handed down is because it almost has that.

An interesting theory.

That’s why they named it the Grand Ultimate

This deserves an article all on it's own. That's probably the worst possible translation of "Tai Ji" because it gives the impression that the name means "the best".

太 tài - highest / greatest / too (much) / very / extremely
极 jí - extremely / pole (geography, physics) / utmost / top

The Tai Ji principle is just that principle of polarity, the yin and the yang. The "grand ultimate" Is really more like "greatest extreme". It's the "great polarity" principle.

It's kind of the "grand ultimate" philosophical ideal of Taoism/Chinese thought.

As far as the name goes we talked about this one the other day.

Around 1860 a court tutor wrote a poem about Yang Lu Chan saying "hands holding Tai Ji shake the world", right? Around 1875 We have a document attributed to Yang Banhou that mentions Tai Ji Quan, apparently copied from a Wu document. The name becomes public around 1912. Yang Cheng Fu spread the art far and wide till his death in 1926, and in 1928 Chen Zhaopei started building the Chen brand of what he now called "Tai Chi" as well.

When DID the Chens start calling it Taijiquan? It's not entirely clear.

[Steve James]

it’s that the Ultimate Martial Arts form would be an art where every movement in the form would contain both the attack or offensive movement and simultaneously contain the countermove against that attack.

Hmm, the grand ultimate stuff is beyond me. I would agree that any movement in a tcc form can be used offensively and defensively. That's assuming the movement is done 'correctly.' So, a punch is not simultaneously a block or anti-punch. Rather, 1) if someone grabs your arm (extended as a punch), if you just continue the form, you'll make the opponent release. However, 2) even if the form says "punch," it's still possible to 'push' through, rather than snap. 3) Even if it's called a punch, it's a fist, and a fist can hold (na) as well as hit (da).

Some forms are automatically symmetrical and can easily be push hands patterns, like Brush Knee. I'm not sure that works for SW. In some styles, the rt hand works in the horizontal plane and the left hand in a vertical plane. Of course, that's not required --because it'd have to be adjusted for different opponents.

Anyway, I don't think this is any more true of Chen style than Yang style. The demo showing the hooked hand and a qinna application is cool. I'd never seen that idea before, but it'd be interesting to see what the hand was being used for before it was grabbed. Btw, in some styles, the hooked hand pokes "like" a chicken's beak.