F̷a̷j̷i̷n̷ Bao Fali in Xingyiquan

[origami_itto]

Weird double post

[D_Glenn]

It has become so natural that I have to consciously try to not do it when I am doing bagua.

[D_Glenn]

In my school of Baguazhang we have a motto Leng Cui Kuai (Cold Crisp Fast). The power has to be Cold- without warning. Crisp- cleanly executed. And then Fast.
You can’t have true speed without first making your strikes Cold and Crisp. Which is how you go about training all your strikes. Speed is the last thing to work on when you’re trying to learn a new movement. It’s the icing on the cake. Cold is the batter. Crisp is the bake.

[D_Glenn]

醍醐灌顶！庞超老师古崩拳，根节胯打 Shocked, the unique way of exerting force in Xingyi

醍醐灌顶！庞超老师古崩拳，根节胯打
The translation should be something more like:

Profound insights! Teacher Pang Chow on Beng Quan (Cannon Fist). Using the hip to power the strike.
Or something along those lines.
Regardless, I don’t see any relevance here.

[windwalker]

醍醐灌顶！庞超老师古崩拳，根节胯打 Shocked, the unique way of exerting force in Xingyi

醍醐灌顶！庞超老师古崩拳，根节胯打
The translation should be something more like:

Profound insights! Teacher Pang Chow on Beng Quan (Cannon Fist). Using the hip to power the strike.
Or something along those lines.

I'll be sure to pass on the recommendation, I'm sure he will appreciate it.
What makes you think its a translation and not part of the title for English speakers

Regardless, I don’t see any relevance here.

Not a fan the demo of the OP clip..

the relevance: presenting another demo of power generation...contrasting theories of power generation.
Like his demos, does a good job IMO of explaining, demoing CMA concepts of usage and power development.

[D_Glenn]

Because the title is misleading. I think it’s a bad ai translation.

There’s no doubt that Kua power is a part of Xingyiquan. It’s great. It’s effective. I’ve felt it before from many highly skilled Xyq guys. That clip is a decent example of it. The guy has good shenfa.

Bolangjin is done in addition to it. The original clip I posted is just a tiny, tiny snippet from a long documentary. It looks like the documentary crew was filming at this school in China for a good 3 days. The original video is only on facebook so I took a screen recording of this part.

[G. Matthew Webb]

If you watch high speed camera footage of boxers and people getting hit (600 fps and up) you can see how the flesh moves in waves. In a standard/ normal punch (衝擊力 Chōng​jī​lì) you can see the bones of the hand hit the object, but the wave of flesh is still up around the bicep and is moving down towards the hand. Meanwhile the object being hit causes a wave of flesh to start traveling back up through the hand and the two waves collide with each other around the forearm.

Do you have a link to an example?

[D_Glenn]

The high speed films I had seen a decade ago never found their way onto youtube. So the examples of that are hard to find. There’s one but he’s wearing boxing gloves so you can only see the movement in the upper part of his arm.

To film myself I actually bought a used high speed camera but factoring the best storage that it has, you only have a 2 second time to capture it at high speed. So I’m going to have a lot of trial and error and maybe invest in a good trigger. Or just wait for a better camera when I can afford it.

But I can dig for the ones showing just a normal strike/ chongjili if you really want.

[wayne hansen]

My teacher was about 18 stone when he was first training
They did a lot of heavy bag work in Penang
He told me he noticed when he hit the bag there was a double impact
First the muscle and bone then the settling flesh
Just like a wave running up the beach then back down to meet the next wave giving that wave double impact
Breaking Wave Action

[D_Glenn]

That sounds cool. I know Xyq guys who can get their Mung Bean bags to do all sorts of things that reflect the type of strike they’re using. There’s a lot of techniques in Chinese CMA that try to get 2 consecutive hits in the same place. The first hit will cause a wave to start traveling on the opponent’s body, starting from the point of impact, it reaches the other side, which then travels back to the point of impact, where your second strike meets it, and it will naturally have its wave of flesh landing too, because it’s caught up now. So your wave and second hit collide directly with the rebounding wave and the force has nowhere to go but into the interior.

Bajiquan is a great example of this. They hit with the raking fist, then roll their fingers into a regular fist for the second impact. (Then for added effect they bend their arm and try to drive their elbow into that same spot.)

The CIMA get this effect from the movement of the lumbar and Dantian. But in my Baguazhang we have techniques like Bajiquan but you get a 3rd force from it because you already have 2 landing.

[wayne hansen]

The main skill in our school of tai chi is folding
With good folding you can do what you say there

[D_Glenn]

Nice strikes. I like the strikes to the left and right best.

You definitely notice he has 'some' skill. Some, as in a decent amount and some as in 'something'. It's something cultivated that wasn't there before.

What I find most glaring is that the palm doesn't seem to be moving very fast. I suppose the palm has to be only positioned and then the bones crash into the oppponent from the inside?

In our strike training drills, you need to follow a strict cadence. Slowly wind up to get your tissues stretched to the max in order to really develop your cross body connections and Mai Jin (muscle tendon meridians), and then strike. Each strike should take about 2-4 seconds of time. It shouldn’t be a cardiovascular exercise. It’s more about developing the mechanism, gradually increasing power, and carefully stretching all the tendons, muscles, ligaments and fascia that are involved in each different movement.

[Appledog]

An issue with this shaking energy is that it’s most probably almost to absolutely impossible to execute if actually fighting an accomplished opponent that knows how to move.
So what’s the use of it anyway ? This energy is also developable in traditional Karate, I developed it from that practice without actually knowing it until I seriously hurt a guy with just a “skin touch” punch to his midsection….during a stationary sparring drill.
So for this thing to actually be workable it must either be done like in my unfortunately situation or against someone completely unaware and just minding his own business, so if someone actually has this skill and deliberately execute it in such or if possible any situation, then there aint any value to any so called “wude”, as well as speaking/writing about it and how to develop it ain’t wude’ish.
If any actually has this “power”…then don’t try to share details on how to develop it, it ain’t a good thing..

Well that's why a student needs good wude before they learn it. If you learn it and dont have good wude then it will be used to attack unsuspecting people.

[Bob]

That sounds cool. I know Xyq guys who can get their Mung

Bajiquan is a great example of this. They hit with the raking fist, then roll their fingers into a regular fist for the second impact. (Then for added effect they bend their arm and try to drive their elbow into that same spot.)

The CIMA get this effect from the movement of the lumbar and Dantian. But in my Baguazhang we have techniques like Bajiquan but you get a 3rd force from it because you already have 2 landing.

Not going to beat a dead horse here but the xing yi clip illustrates one (not the only one) mode of bajiquan like fajin.

In the baji I learned, we did not use the same terminology but the practitioner stores and releases energy from the legs & sinking of the hips/kua area - then the release.

The upper body is relaxed until full extension in the release of generated power occurs while the lower body goes from relaxed to contracting/tightening (yin yang principle) and not always simply punching air all of the time - after some semblance of alignment/structure one also employs padded boards, shields, bag, partner moving shoulder punches.

This is primarily developed, not over night, but through static & dynamic posture drills in conjunction with developed alignment/structure via neigong & stance training topped with neigong like da qiang exercises/drills including two person resistance da qiang moving (around a circle similiar to open hand rou shou exercises in bagua).

Miller & Cartmell's xing yi neigong book open my eyes to this xing yi correlation including the da qiang employment illustrated in some of their included pictures.

Last stage of development, after structure, alignment, and power are adequately developed is a more focused use of seated meditative breathing, mind directed, qi/blood flow.

San Dang Qi, Taiwan/Mainland China Xing Yi, teacher provided a similar pathway to my teacher who learned from him even while fully trained in bajiquan/pigua zhang.

I still remember the day, late in my Wutan tenure, when my teacher compared 7 xing yi da qiang exercises to those of bajiquan - I'm also very aware that this barely scratches the surface of the xing yi system so this merely is a sharing of what I experienced with no claim of authoritative expertise in Hebei xing yi.

The guy in the clip didn't arrive at that level overnight - from my experience that guy is no lightweight LOL

[D_Glenn]

Bob, is this method the part of the strike where the Baji guy suddenly drops/ squats down as the hand is going out?