Xing Yi Sang Dan-qi Taiwan

[Bob]

nicklinjm wrote:

Very interesting post Bob, especially the mention of Sang Dan-qi as AFAIK he was the only direct student of Shang Yunxiang who left the mainland. Do you have any more details about what and who he taught?


I didn't want to hijack the fajin post so my post is moved here. I'm typing from a frickin phone so bear with me - first of all I've not really trained deeply in this like bajiquan and we learned pieces of it over almost a 15 year period - I didn't and don't have any goals of reaching some "deep" martial art level - I just find the practice helpful and satisfying - my primary focus is on the wu xing & xing yi set of da qiang practice we learned. About 6 of the Animals were taught.

Initially the xing yi was primarily taught for public students and the late teacher Dave Schenk (disciple) owner of the Center for Body, Mind Harmony.

However, as stated in my earlier posts, I started xing yi practiced to support & develop my liuhe duan chui practice (old age favorite LOL) and also on a visit to China, my teacher took students to Jinan, Shandong and met up with a 103 year old xing yi practitioner (I wasn't there but got to see the dvds and was impressed with his practice along with the seemingly overlap of the baji neigong I practice with the xing yi nei gong present in Miller & Cartmell's book) - he passed at 105

We didn't learn much about Sang Danqi's background - my speculation is because of the Guomindang relationship there was a fear of persecution of his teacher on the mainland.

Sang Dan-qi 's wife & daughter decided to move to New York City and he decided to stay in Taiwan - Liu Yunqiao offered to let him stay at the Wutan school and my teacher (Master Tony Yang) started to bring him breakfast in the morning when he trained. GM Liu told Master Yang to ask him to teach you Xing Yi - his Xing Yi is very good

So Sang Dan-qi had Master Yang hold santshi for three months even though Master Yang was well advanced in bajiquan/pigua zhang

One of the first things we learned (besides the requirements of santishi) was to advance & retreat slowly in the pi quan posture and to hold the pi quan posture for 3 - 9 breaths in 3 parts of the pi quan posture as you moved forward and backward in the posture - that could take as long as 30 minutes. This is close to what the Brinkman clip shows for using pi quan as a health conditioning practice.

Interestingly, the zuan execution does not pull the retreating arm back to the side of the waist but the wrist of the arm is located underneath the elbow of the forward arm/fist - it closes/protects the front of the upper body - I've not seen that in other practices and don't know if was simply a personal modification - seems like a very close range application.

Also beng quan punching arm/fist travels forward underneath the retracting arm/fist

We learned a linking form and there was a xing yi dao but that was never taught

I hate typing on a phone and will later add more - Our bagua sword & dao comes from him along with the double-headed bagua spear (I didn't learn, unfortunately).

Sang Dan-qi never talked about his teacher - could you please elaborate on the teacher you cited? Thanks in advance

[wayne hansen]

It would be interesting to know which 6 animals you learnt

[Bob]

Wayne, I don't play them and this was 10 years past - tiger, sparrow hawk, 1st posture the dragon?, snake, alligator, horse something like that - not many were interested in xing yi so we would pass in and out of it - didn't learn the da qiang exercises until very late in the game - one trained in xing yi simply to have some knowledge of the system.

I don't think there was any particular logic to which were chosen

In the old, old days, the school was hard core praying mantis, especially 8 step praying mantis and baji, other than the nei gong, was reserved for disciples.

[zrm]

Interestingly, the zuan execution does not pull the retreating arm back to the side of the waist but the wrist of the arm is located underneath the elbow of the forward arm/fist - it closes/protects the front of the upper body - I've not seen that in other practices and don't know if was simply a personal modification - seems like a very close range application.

One of my teachers from China now teaches it this way, which is interesting because he is the only one I know who does it like that and he used to teach it the other way. I think some old master showed him this variation and he preferred it. If I remember I will ask him about it next time I see him.

[Bob]

ZM

Appreciate you looking into this - very, very close to one of the postures found in liu he tang lang.

[wayne hansen]

I am just interested in order people teach the 12
In our school they are usually taught to give the student what he is lacking
For example when my student Geoff came back from Taiwan for the first time he had great flexibility and strength
He had been taught snake and tiger
Each time he would learn another pair and gain the qualities he needed and and suited his body type
It is better to learn the one or two you need than 12 just for the sake of it
Especially if you are already practicing another art

[Bob]

I am just interested in order people teach the 12
In our school they are usually taught to give the student what he is lacking
For example when my student Geoff came back from Taiwan for the first time he had great flexibility and strength
He had been taught snake and tiger
Each time he would learn another pair and gain the qualities he needed and and suited his body type
It is better to learn the one or two you need than 12 just for the sake of it
Especially if you are already practicing another art

When I learned the 5 elements (wu xing) we learned all 5 of them as a continous set e.g. we would do say 12 pi quan and then transition and back in the opposite direction transition and begin beng quan (we learned this as our second posture) so these were trained as a continuous set with transition. Slow and or fast was okay and I aways end with santishi.

Not written in stone you could play each element separately without continuous direction - so it was flexible.

[wayne hansen]

A million way to practice the 5
All good

[Trick]

Interestingly, the zuan execution does not pull the retreating arm back to the side of the waist but the wrist of the arm is located underneath the elbow of the forward arm/fist - it closes/protects the front of the upper body - I've not seen that in other practices and don't know if was simply a personal modification - seems like a very close range application.

Also beng quan punching arm/fist travels forward underneath the retracting arm/fist

Zuan, as you describe, isn’t most xyq styles zhuan done as you describe was taught ? Or do you mean the lower arms fist/wrist is directly under and close to the upper arms elbow ? then it sound as a little like a common position/technique found in plenty of Karate katas.

Beng, your description above is how zhongquan(middle punch) is trained in wuxhing-tongbeiquan

[Trick]

Damn my iPad, it choose spellings other than mine…..

[nicklinjm]

@Bob, thanks for the details about Sang Dan-qi. AFAIK he initially studied with a teacher called Li Yanqing in Tianjin, but then later on was accepted by the famous 'iron-foot buddha' Shang Yunxiang (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_Yunxiang) as a disciple. Think there may have been another Shang disciple called Cao Lianfang who also moved to Taiwan but don't have many details about him.