Felipe Bidó wrote:Someone told me a while ago that some research had shown that Dai Xinyi and Hebei Xinyi could share a common root, instead of one coming from the other.
Notice how both styles share similarities with Xinyiliuhe.
I'd say more, but I'd let that someone bring the matter to light, when he sees it fit.
Similar movements?. Dragon... Dai Xinyi's monkey is very similar to a movement in the Monkey form in Li Zhengban's line (I got very surprised the first time I saw Dai's Monkey), and tiger... and the 'Tiao' movement is the same in the three styles.
AND...before someone starts, when I say "movement" I'm not talking only external appearance (Some would say: Duh, a Tiger looks similar in all styles). I also talk about the timing, and intention.
I'll write more later...
I would have to agree that all 3 styles share a lot of similarities (Xinyiliuhequan, Dai Shi Liu He Xin Yi Quan and Xing Yi Quan), but I would have to say would be partly true because of Xinyiliuhequan being the root of all 3.
If you take the Xinyilihequan (Mai Zhuangtu) Si Ba (4 strikes) 1. Heng Quan 2. Tiao Ling 3. Ying Zhuo 4. Tong Tian Pa (plus it has additional movements such as, hou shu dun, chun pi, da pi, ba wang gui shen (totally don't know how to spell that?), wan si ba, song ba, (when you stand straight up).
You then compare this Si Ba with Dai Xin Yi Quan's and the sequence is pretty much the same, apart from the extra moves I mentioned above are omitted. Mei lin Shu Tou (beautiful women combs her hair) , An Xiong Zhang (palm presses chest) Ow Shi Heng Quan (cross body horizontal fist) Yow Zi Ru Lin (sparrow hawk flies in the forest) Tiao Ling (not too sure of the translation ) Tui Bu Ying Zuo (step backward eagle swoops) Zhan Shou Pau (cutting hand cannon?) Qing Pin Dian Shui (don't know how to spell this either, something like grasshopper/water?), Tong Tian Pau (heaven opening cannon)
Now going onto the difference between the actual movements of Dai and XYLHQ. XYLHQ favours the "chang san bu" or 3 long stance, due to the measurement between the front heel and the rear toe. This stance is long and deep and you are turned roughly (90 degrees). This very closely resembles "gong bu" in Bei Shaolin Quan. As for Dai Xin Yi Quan, the "hu bu" or their version of gong bu, the measurement is 1 1/2 feet from the front heel to the toe of the rear foot. Additionally the hips are square due to the fact that every movement must have the torso in the correct position so the "dan tian" can rotate freely. Dan tian rotation is also possible with the body slightly turned and is required in certain movements (beng quan, etc) as you need to use a additional twisting force to the expansion.
As for power generation they are very different, I would say the Henan style uses a much harder approach, but this also varies between different schools. Some (not all) movements, require you to use the waist to swing out the force and also sometimes uses momentum, such as dropping the hands from a higher position onto the target. Movements like (hu bai wey-tigers tail, lung xing guo hen-dragon shape wrapping body, etc), use these forces.
The principles mentioned above are not used by Dai Xin Yi Quan and also go contrary to certain principles, such as not lifting the hands above the eyebrows and keeping the elbows down. All power generation is dependent on skill achieved through dan tian methods (dan tian gong). The force delivery emphasised is rou jin (soft power), though Dai Xin Yi Quan is considered, rou/gang (soft hard).
From talking to my own teacher (Yan Long Chang) he believes that the present shape of Dai XIn Yi Quan is due to much modification to the original Henan XYLHQ (as taught to Dai Longbang from Li Zheng), Tang Lang Quan (from Jin Shikui) and also previously Dai clan had their own art (Dai Jia Quan?), which consisted of (san quan=tzuan/guo/jian or wu xing quan, san gun=3 sticks).
As for what Li Zheng passed onto Dai Long Bang, it is highly probable, Si Ba (4 strikes) and Shi Da Xing (10 animals=dragon, tiger, snake, monkey, horse, eagle, chicken, sparrowhawk, swallow and bear).
For me the question that is nagging at me is, where did the "squatting monkey" come from? I heard one story that Dai Long Bang's father (?) learnt it from a Taoist monk (not too keen on this story) and one other possibility is that he learnt this from Li Zheng and further refined it.
XYLHQ also has internal methods, called "zong jie jin" (correct my spelling Jarek if you read this). These methods are not so talked about, but I am lucky I learnt these back from when I used to practice XYLHQ (though I don't practice them any more as I personally think the Dai methods are better).
The XYLHQ nei gong I got taught were, 1. ba dun si ba (si ba performed sitting on a bench) and 2. wu mo nei xin (forgot the name, means massaging the 5 internal organs).
I have a picture somewhere of Mai Guishen (Mai Zhuangtu's grandson) performing something which looks quite a lot like, yi zi bu (walking the character one) from Dai Xin Yi Quan, but just re-looking at it, it resembles something I just got taught in Qi Xian, called bang bu (not too sure what it means),
You raise your knee very high to your chest (squatting in the contraction stage), both hands are on the raised knee and you step forward into a bow stance and both hands go to dan tian. I think in XYLHQ you strike your dan tian, but in Dai this is not needed.
More soon
Jon.