The written Tradition of Taijiquan

[Martin2]

Hello everybody,

we have a new text online. I wrote it some years ago for the German Taijiquan Journal and translated it last week. It is nothing special, but I am shure some people here will enjoy it:

http://taichi-philosophy.blogspot.com/

Greetings to all philsophers

Martin2

[Qin'sEmporium]

Dear martin2

Thank you for your kind efforts in this matter. I shall now read the text!

Thanks

[Qin'sEmporium]

Hello everybody,

we have a new text online. I wrote it some years ago for the German Taijiquan Journal and translated it last week. It is nothing special, but I am shure some people here will enjoy it:

http://taichi-philosophy.blogspot.com/

Greetings to all philsophers

Martin2

Very interesting. I have a question; in the earliest versions of the Dazhuan (Great Treatise), within the section that deals with your quote regarding the first known mention of the term 'taiji', Wilhelm, Rutt and others are of the opinion that the orignally the text read 'Taiji gives rise to 'day' and 'night' (yang and yeuh), or 'sun' and 'moon'. Only later was yin and yang (sunny and shady) applied, and even then it was Yang and yin, the wrong way around. I would be very grateful for your views on this.

Thank you

[Martin2]

Hello Qin,

sorry, I have no answer to this, but I am shure Taiwandeutscher on this Board knows it:

Greetings

Martin

[Qin'sEmporium]

Hello Qin,

sorry, I have no answer to this, but I am shure Taiwandeutscher on this Board knows it:

Greetings

Martin

Thank you for an excellent translation! I have often ponder the connection between the Yijing and martial arts.

Thank you

[Doc Stier]

Hello Martin:

Nice work.

Thanks for sharing it with all of us here.

Doc

[chicagoTaiJi]

fyi:

One of the key concepts of Confucianism is the love for learning. It is defined as a desire fulfilled only by an enduring process. As it is stated in the book Confucius:

To learn
and to repeat from time to time
what has been learned,
is this not a pleasure?"
(Confucius 1, 1, Boedicker, p. 10)

Firstly the book is the Analects, in chinese 論語 - not "confucius"

Secondly, I would not translate this as "from time to time", which indicates that one *occasionally* practices it, I would rather say 時習 refers to practicing it "over time", but I am not an expert.

[Qin'sEmporium]

fyi:

One of the key concepts of Confucianism is the love for learning. It is defined as a desire fulfilled only by an enduring process. As it is stated in the book Confucius:

To learn
and to repeat from time to time
what has been learned,
is this not a pleasure?"
(Confucius 1, 1, Boedicker, p. 10)

Firstly the book is the Analects, in chinese 論語 - not "confucius"

Secondly, I would not translate this as "from time to time", which indicates that one *occasionally* practices it, I would rather say 時習 refers to practicing it "over time", but I am not an expert.

To be fair to martin2, he is translating from German, into English. This is how Legge translates this passage;

'The Master said: "Is it not pleasant to learn with a constant perseverence and application?
Is it not delightful to have friends coming from the distant quarters?
Is he not a man of complete virtue, who feels no discomposure though men may take no note of him.' Lunyu 1:1.

And Waley's version;

'The Master said, To learn and at due times to repeat what one has learnt, is that not after all a pleasure? That friends should come from afar, is this not after all delightful? To remain unsoured even though one's merits are unrecognised by others, is that not after all what is expected of a gentleman?' Lunyu 1:1

Martin2"s translation accords with that of Waley.

Thank you

[Martin2]

Hello Chicagojay,

you are right, in Chinese it is called Lunyu (even though when Chinese tranlate the book the called also Confucius), which can be translated as Analects. But in the West it is often called Confucius.
To know it is the book and not Confucius himself it is written in italics.

This is the same as the Zhuangzi. Of course the book is not called Zhuangzi, but the True Book of
the Southern Flower Country, but even the Chinese calls it just the Zhuangzi.

The translation of the first sentence of the Confucius is not easy (as often). It is written:

Xue er shi xi zhi - "learning and time repeating", so you can say:

Waley: at due times
Lau: at due intervals
Chan: from time to time

So choose what you like most

Thank you

Martin2

[Martin2]

Hello Qin,

we were overlapping - great.

But sorry, I translate the Chinese philosophy texts direct from the Chinese into English.

Yes, and thank you for doing research abouth the Yijing in martial arts. I am shure this will be a very fruitful work. The Yijing is part of the Five Classics of Confucianism. As Taijiquan masters often were part of Confucianist society, they were for shure deeply influenced by the Yinjing. I am looking forward to resluts for your reasearch.

Greetings

Martin2

[Martin2]

Hello Doc Stier,

as I saw here, you are a man of great knowledge and abilty - so great thanks for your post.

Martin2

[Qin'sEmporium]

Hello Qin,

we were overlapping - great.

But sorry, I translate the Chinese philosophy texts direct from the Chinese into English.

Yes, and thank you for doing research abouth the Yijing in martial arts. I am shure this will be a very fruitful work. The Yijing is part of the Five Classics of Confucianism. As Taijiquan masters often were part of Confucianist society, they were for shure deeply influenced by the Yinjing. I am looking forward to resluts for your reasearch.

Greetings

Martin2

Thank you Sifu

'To learn and at due times to repeat what one has learnt, is that not after all a pleasure?'

This is a beautiful passage. We practice in our own time and we train hard and usually out of sight. Then, at the right moment, we may show our skills and compare them with others - but only when the time is right. When the time is right - there is psychological and physical peace. This is the perfect moment in archery.....

Thank you

PS: Apologies for the translation error. I thought the article had been translated from the German into English, and that the Chinese text had first been translated into German for German readers, etc.

[Doc Stier]

Hello Doc Stier,

as I saw here, you are a man of great knowledge and ability - so great thanks for your post.

Martin2

Hello Martin:

In regards to your excellent writing and translation work, I say that credit should be given where credit is due!

Or as the elders in my family always said..."es macht ihm Ehre."

Thank you for your kind words.

Doc

[chicagoTaiJi]

Hello Chicagojay,

you are right, in Chinese it is called Lunyu (even though when Chinese tranlate the book the called also Confucius), which can be translated as Analects. But in the West it is often called Confucius.
To know it is the book and not Confucius himself it is written in italics.

This is the same as the Zhuangzi. Of course the book is not called Zhuangzi, but the True Book of
the Southern Flower Country, but even the Chinese calls it just the Zhuangzi.

The translation of the first sentence of the Confucius is not easy (as often). It is written:

Xue er shi xi zhi - "learning and time repeating", so you can say:

Waley: at due times
Lau: at due intervals
Chan: from time to time

So choose what you like most

Thank you

Martin2

Wouldn't it rather be "over time" as in constantly?

[Qin'sEmporium]

Hello Chicagojay,

you are right, in Chinese it is called Lunyu (even though when Chinese tranlate the book the called also Confucius), which can be translated as Analects. But in the West it is often called Confucius.
To know it is the book and not Confucius himself it is written in italics.

This is the same as the Zhuangzi. Of course the book is not called Zhuangzi, but the True Book of
the Southern Flower Country, but even the Chinese calls it just the Zhuangzi.

The translation of the first sentence of the Confucius is not easy (as often). It is written:

Xue er shi xi zhi - "learning and time repeating", so you can say:

Waley: at due times
Lau: at due intervals
Chan: from time to time

So choose what you like most

Thank you

Martin2

Wouldn't it rather be "over time" as in constantly?

It could be, but the connotation is to repeat at the right moment, rather than to repeat at 'all moments'. Something that is constantly repeated can not be a cultivated pleasure - literally it is the gap between repetitions that allows the repeating at the right moment, to be one of cultivated pleasure. The rest of the text talks about doing things at the right time, such as meeting friends from far away - so the context is 'timely' endeavour.