Why did he need to step back before stepping in?

[johnwang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnYQdURQlbs

Why did the guy in blue need to move back his right leg before moving in? Did he just telegraph himself to his opponent? He did at 0.53, 0.57, 1.00, 1.03, 1.25, 1.30, 1.33, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, 2.06, 2.08, 2.22, 3.43, and 3.46, a total of 15 times. So it must not be just an accident mistake. I have always believed that we should make 1,2,3 into 1,2, or 1,2 into 1 in order to develop "lighting speed". Sometime we even just use a "hop" to replace a "step in and turn". This extra back stepping footwork not only telegraph your intention to your opponent but also slow down your entering speed. It make a simple 1 into 1,2 which is the opposite of the "lighting speed" guideline. One possible PRO may be the long moving path can generate more momentum. But the moment that you step back your right leg, the moment that your opponent can do a downward pulling on you and complete mess you up. IMO, It has many CON but no PRO at all.

Did I miss something here?

[Brady]

I do this sometimes to get a flow going early on in practice, but agree it's a poor habit to develop. I'd hope he never did this in randori or a match, cause he'd get planted.

[johnwang]

It's just "common sense" that you:

- "sweep" your opponent when he crosses his legs.
- "pull" your opponent when he steps back.

[ashe]

video is no longer available.

[johnwang]

video is no longer available.

It's still working.

[David Boxen]

Sometimes he steps back, and some times he goes straight in. He clearly shows that he doesn't need to step back, so I have no idea why he does it.

[everything]

I think at :53 and :57 he's just stepping back so we can see the stepping in footwork.

[johnwang]

I think at :53 and :57 he's just stepping back so we can see the stepping in footwork.

I don't think it's just part of his teaching. Many people in Taiwan used this kind of footwork and that's how my teacher taught me, "Pull your opponent down if you see him steps back." It becomes part of my "watch list".

[Royal Dragon]

He does this because he sux.

Look at his feet. he has no root, and does not maintain good structure as he enters. He compromises his center as soon as he gets close. He is constantly on the verge of being thrown the entire time. Someone with mediocre Push hands skills would toss him like a playing card.

He is stepping back to use a longer entry to build some momentum to compensate for deficiencies.

[EDIT]
Ok, I watched it again. EVERYTHING he is trying can be countered easily by either pulling him straight back, or running through him along a straight line as soon as you feel he's given up his center (which he's constantly doing). I am not really very good, but i have countered much better people with the little bit I have. This guy could be beat in my sleep.

[sinkpoint]

it's just a habit from doing pulling drills ( uchikomi ) a lot. It's just something you do to link up the kuzushis when you are doing them in a row.
I do the same thing when I do the drills or single out a technique to train. As far as doing the same thing in randori, I've never noticed it being a problem. I think it teaches two things.

1. Enter into a throw when is in a disadvantages position. ( i.e your center is not directly under you )
2. enter into a throw in the middle of a step.

I never found it to be a hindrance to directly step in.

[Royal Dragon]

Maybe.That does not change the fact that he has a horrible ground connection, and would get tossed by a mediocre push hands player at first touch.

[Areios]

Maybe.That does not change the fact that he has a horrible ground connection, and would get tossed by a mediocre push hands player at first touch.

[ashe]

It's still working.

weird. wouldn't work for me last night, but does now.

[johnwang]

it's just a habit from doing pulling drills ( uchikomi ) a lot. It's just something you do to link up the kuzushis when you are doing them in a row.
I do the same thing when I do the drills or single out a technique to train. As far as doing the same thing in randori, I've never noticed it being a problem. I think it teaches two things.

1. Enter into a throw when is in a disadvantages position. ( i.e your center is not directly under you )
2. enter into a throw in the middle of a step.

I never found it to be a hindrance to directly step in.

I'm glad that we get some meaningful discussion on this. I can't get any meaningful response from the Judo forum on this at all. So my question is:

Will this footwork

- telegraph your intention to your opponent?
- give your opponent a chance to pull you down?
- necessary for your entry?

I also find the "backward step" used in this clip too. Perfect throwing skill (I will never criticize anyone's skill) but I just see too many CON and not any PRO for that "backward step".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NrAH_7Yxzg

[johnrieber]

from looking at the clip (with the sound off) i think that maybe he's used to stepping back once he's created a triangular relationship of force with an opponent to try to make his opponent fall or slip or lean forward a little bit.

but there's really no way you can tell what's going on with this clip. his opponent is in the classic video-demonstration mode. you could tango with the guy, and he wouldn't respond in any substantial way.

whatever, from my POV, it wouldn't be a sensible thing to do more than once to an opponent. and probably not even then, if the opponent has any listening skill. or is just watching your knees. the whole business just has the flavor of someone who's afraid of engaging the opponent's energy or mass, and is just trying to be slippery.

just my two cents.