responses to the cowboy punch

[mixjourneyman]

hey,

What about the big lump whose haymaker can easily club the whole structure down. In that circumstance is it better to evade/ blend / borrow?

yusuf

DRR has the benefit of being built like a small truck.

I can attest to that.
He is a perfect little truck. Also when you go to push on him, he just shuffles backwards for a halfstep and then dumps you on your arse.

[Chris McKinley]

Double-tap....center/center-right of mass.....from modified Isosceles, right lead. I recommend .45 ACP, semi-automatic, regular load and Hydrashocks if you're worried about penetration threat to bystanders.

[Father_Jon]

Ippon Seionage? Or, grab the wrist and Kao into the body?

[BruceP]

It's rare to see someone throw just a single haymaker. It's usually a flurry. People don't tend to throw haymakers unless/until they're in range to land, followed by a flurry.

Stepping in or otherwise directly engaging the opp can be a gamble because people will instinctively grab you by the shirt/jacket, and then it's a hockey fight.

People on meth and/or coke+adrenaline are insanely fast and very hard to hurt. Even booze makes an alpha-male hard to hurt when they're agro.

There is no simple answer or one-two drill to defend against that kind of attack. It's a common attack that happens in so many different situations that you really have to flesh out the context and situation before exploring the tactical methods.

The most common/natural response I've seen - even by real fighters - is the turtle. Where you go from there depends on how realistically you've explored your own personal combat and how honest you've been in that exploration. There are methods of referencing and determining that one can practice to recover from that particular physical response.

[bigphatwong]

Duck!

[Darthwing Teorist]

I don't know my reaction. But like Shooter and DRR say, it may be a turtle followed by an entry. Because of my WC background, I usually like to get close and personal. It all depends if I am surprised and who is my opponent. I can't say more than that except that roundhouse punches were a weakness of mine. Now, it all depends if I see them coming or not.

You should always expect a flurry, otherwise you're just sparring.

[BruceP]

You should always expect a flurry, otherwise you're just sparring

Truth

The sad thing is, it's hard to find people who can replicate the intensity, speed and ill-intent involved when, for instance, a 200+lb hockey player or logger cuts loose after having a few drinks. But it definitely helps to have training partners who can give you that level of emulation, and who can portray the mental/emotional component in the types of attacks one is most likely to encounter at their work, or where ever- when you actually start believing your training partner really is the enemy

[Bär]

Hey guys - I'm huge and willing to get drunk and go all haymakery. Now if I just lived near anywhere but the middle of nowhere....

[Frazetta]

Respond with the "Donkey Punch" and call it a day.

[klonk]

Hiya all..

Just wondering how you train to deal with the big cowboy punch.

cheers

yusuf

Various martial arts have defenses for this kind of attack, because it is a very common thing to face, the uneducated man's way of punching.

• Karate: Those forearm block, rear hand punch combos in the Hiean/Pinan forms are suitable. Likewise, the same block with snap kick riposte, etc., depending on distance.
  
• Boxing: Hands up, chin down, move forward, counterpunching is good here.
  
• Taiji: It's a common argument hereabouts on just what move does what in taiji, or even how taiji works, but it seems to me that the cowboy haymaker is just made for an early stick-on defense. By this I mean you have gained contact with the arm and are sticking-following before the attack is well developed. Ideally you make contact before the punch is thrown. If you are in contact with his arm, you can probably find a way to make it miss.

No doubt other arts will have other approaches, but these are some examples of how the problem has been approached in the past.

[Andy_S]

Ideal world:
Turn/blend with him inside his motion and send him spinning out of control across the room and into that convenient pool of hungry piranha. Then stand there, in pose, with a calm but deadly look on your mug.

If you train boxing:
Bob and end up on his outside, then hook.

If you train Taiji:
Calmly palm it past you and do what you have to do from his side door

A simple solution that does not require a lot of training
Palm stop him on his bicep, and follow up with a straight something with your other hand, or wrap after the bicep stop and move into clinchwork

An option that does not require tremendous timing:
Move forward with anything straight inside his circle and do your thing from there.

McKinley Solution
Gun the bastard down with a hollow-point double tap, saw off one of his limbs with one of your (various) pieces of concealed cutlery, take it home and call the neighbours and local LEOs round for a barbie.

Most likely solution (ie if you don't see the thing coming from a mile off and only have a split second to react):
As Shooter says: Cover up, take a bit, and and move forward, being aware that he will be following up immediately with the other hand.

Of course, having too many solutions to any one tactical problem is mind clutter - the next worst thing to having no solution at all. Sigh...

[bailewen]

[*] Taiji: It's a common argument hereabouts on just what move does what in taiji, or even how taiji works, but it seems to me that the cowboy haymaker is just made for an early stick-on defense. By this I mean you have gained contact with the arm and are sticking-following before the attack is well developed. Ideally you make contact before the punch is thrown. If you are in contact with his arm, you can probably find a way to make it miss.[/list]

No doubt other arts will have other approaches, but these are some examples of how the problem has been approached in the past.

Single hand push hands trains the perfect response to this. Bring you same side hand up underneath it and make contact as described above. Guide the punch past you transitioning from lu (as it comes in) to an (as it goes by). With the an part, press the elbow back towards the person.

If they throw a flurry, same thing. It's a lot like responding with Bruce's corn grinding movements as a base but with the hands held higher. Just pass the punches by and fa some nice classic an jin. You may have to lean back a bit or shuffle with your footwork to get the angles right but it works just fine. Often you can knock a guy right on his ass with this.

[klonk]

If you train boxing:
Bob and end up on his outside, then hook.

This I wanna give a 'yes...but' answer. I am not keen on bobbing in a self defense situation. While I may be wrong (or just not good enough), it seems to me that bobbing brings with it some chance of eating shoeleather.

Against someone with no savvy (probable, if he punches like Roy Rogers) it's probably a non-issue.

[Andy_S]

Klonk

No way will you eat a kick while bobbing, but this tech is not used in MT or MMA as you are setting yourself up for the knee. Otherwise, however, it is good-to-go - and, combined with the weave, is probably the best defense against face punches (superior to blocking).

But like everything it must be trained. A fair-to-decent boxer will be so instinctively conditioned to do this that he will do it just from a peripheral signal. Anyone else (a lot of peeps train boxing-type drills with their other MA) will probably not be instictual enough with it.

[bailewen]

If your gonna bob in a more free for all context, dive for the armpit. Shove your head in under there and you come up behind them.