"Martial Tai Chi"

[Ben]

Thanks for the info everybody. This is kinda what I expected to hear. I was mainly surprised by how closed minded they sound...

[SitYodTong]

Judging from her videos, she is a pretty craptacular TJQ and BGZ practicioner with zero actual fighting skills. Which is typical, IMHO, for people who life to pontificate endlessly about irrelevant issues like Qi.

I will never sleep soundly again knowing that I can't join her federation of deadly Tai Chi killing machines. That's what I get for daring to pracice internal arts for meditation and relaxation, damn me to hell. What am I thinking?

And judging from her writing style she could stand to do some meditation and relaxation herself. She seems juuuuuust a little uptight.

[Darthwing Teorist]

There was a guy in the city i grew up in. His name was Brian Coxx. He trained RCMP in D Division what he referred to a Combat Tai Chi. Lots of hard hits, step ins, throw downs. he produced a manual and I think it can still be had at the hippy bookstore "prarie sky books" on wolseley. It's a good manual for applied bad ass tai chi.

his tai chi aint the same as your average old lady tai chi.

It was drawn from Yang style.

Can you get me one of those manuals? I will pay you for it when I see you.

[LaPointe]

this kind of thing is what keeps me out of most MA circles. there are so many people that just stick to a bunch of dogma and hate on anyone who may disagree or who simply may want to discuss something. and it's not just MA people either, it's everyone. it's in religion, politics, school, you name it. the thing i always say to someone who says that something is a certain way and that it cannot be otherwise is "prove it."

[Syd]

There is some small element within the sentiment that I understand but unfortunately as with most zealots they only serve to alienate rather than unify. What would be really nice is a proper balance of Taijiquan curriculum that caters to all coming from more schools. But what are you going to do with regards to the people who just want Tai Chi for health only, are you going to force applications onto them and insist they start working two person fighting sets or else?!

[TaoJoannes]

Uhhh, yeah?

Or, rather, make a place available for them to keep paying you for lessons, while you also make time for folks who want to take it further into the realm of the martial.

[Ben]

I just hate to see people with such a black and white view of things. Theres a lot of value in the different aspects of Taiji and it seems like their missing out. Makes me feel sorry for them.

[gretel]

But what are you going to do with regards to the people who just want Tai Chi for health only, are you going to force applications onto them and insist they start working two person fighting sets or else?!

Here's my theory on that and my experience too: Tai Chi form itself, if taken seriously and practiced with commitment, will lead people to start wondering about what it's for, or what the martial aspect is. I could be wrong, and I have a teacher who leads us into the applications. But I don't think you have to "force," but have a little faith in the form itself. IMHO.

gretel

[DeusTrismegistus]

But what are you going to do with regards to the people who just want Tai Chi for health only, are you going to force applications onto them and insist they start working two person fighting sets or else?!

One of the greatest benefits of tai chi is teaching people how to keep that calm meditative mind during any type of activity, especially activity that tends to cause stress like a violent encounter. Without the martial practice this will likely never happen. So yea, if they don't want to do applications and spar, then they should go elsewhere.

[Bao]

But what are you going to do with regards to the people who just want Tai Chi for health only, are you going to force applications onto them and insist they start working two person fighting sets or else?!

Here's my theory on that and my experience too: Tai Chi form itself, if taken seriously and practiced with commitment, will lead people to start wondering about what it's for, or what the martial aspect is. I could be wrong, and I have a teacher who leads us into the applications. But I don't think you have to "force," but have a little faith in the form itself. IMHO.

gretel

You have a great faith in taiji!

There are countless of teachers who practiced and taught taiji for 30 or 40 years and still have no clue about using their art as self-defence. Maybe they practice some basic tuishou drills. But mostly if you ask them about the martial aspects they will say that the taiji is mostly taught only for health today, or they will say that martial skill comes with form practice and tuishou drills. The truth is that most of what is called taijiquan should not be called so.

[Syd]

But what are you going to do with regards to the people who just want Tai Chi for health only, are you going to force applications onto them and insist they start working two person fighting sets or else?!

Here's my theory on that and my experience too: Tai Chi form itself, if taken seriously and practiced with commitment, will lead people to start wondering about what it's for, or what the martial aspect is. I could be wrong, and I have a teacher who leads us into the applications. But I don't think you have to "force," but have a little faith in the form itself. IMHO.

gretel

You have a great faith in taiji!

There are countless of teachers who practiced and taught taiji for 30 or 40 years and still have no clue about using their art as self-defence. Maybe they practice some basic tuishou drills. But mostly if you ask them about the martial aspects they will say that the taiji is mostly taught only for health today, or they will say that martial skill comes with form practice and tuishou drills. The truth is that most of what is called taijiquan should not be called so.

Bao,

You hit the nail on the head and I couldn't agree more ... the proof of all this is in the pudding as they say - 90% of Tai Chi ( please note my spelling ) out in the world today it completely bereft of ANY Martial aspects whatsoever and if you turned up to these classes you'd find the New Age crowd and old folks who never had a clue that Taijiquan is a martial art - what they think Tai Chi is is just a moving Qigong at best.

Here's a little story that's pretty sad ... a few years ago I tracked down a totally legit Wu Style Master in my city who has all the lineage you could ever ask for and more - I won't say more than this since out of respect I don't wish to out the person. I traveled to train with this Master for a regular class one morning ... when I arrived the class was very full with a mixture of oddballs ... it really looked like the morning Bingo session had let out with some younger people there also.

As I watched the class unfold I kept a keen eye on the Master ... there was so much wrong with his own form that I couldn't bare to watch after a while; it was painfully embarrassing to me. What was worse was that the people in his class were then copying his movements and making so many horrid mistakes of their own that were not being corrected - this kind of teaching is beyond hideous. Finally when the sword class started there were even more errors to come as the music played in the background ( Sorry I just don't get the music in class thing ) ... sword tips clanking on the floor etc etc etc. No applications were taught, no push hands ... nothing.

I stayed for a while to talk to the Master after the 3 hour session and honestly he was totally genuine, a very nice man but totally clueless about real Taijiquan which was sad. This is the reality of most of the Taijiquan world these days. I took the long drive home and tried to forget what I had seen.

[gretel]

You have a great faith in taiji!

There are countless of teachers who practiced and taught taiji for 30 or 40 years and still have no clue about using their art as self-defence. Maybe they practice some basic tuishou drills. But mostly if you ask them about the martial aspects they will say that the taiji is mostly taught only for health today, or they will say that martial skill comes with form practice and tuishou drills. The truth is that most of what is called taijiquan should not be called so.

Yeh, well you're probably right and i should know better than to generalize on my own case because i know i'm an oddball but there are others like me out there, maybe, probably. And I do have faith in taiji. and i'll call what i do whatever i want to. you don't have to though.

gretel

[mixjourneyman]

Turn on controversial mode: I actually think the greatest benefit that taiji has to offer to the world is as a practice of health and wellbeing. Taiji as a martial art is very hard to learn and only (martially speaking) has the benefit of possibly being able to defend yourself in a violent situation. Most people will benefit much more from getting some stretching and gentle movement with qi visualizations than from learning how to break someones arm.

End controversy: That having been said, I'm totally down for breaking arms (of other people... not my own).

[Andy_S]

SNIP
Judging from her videos, she is a pretty craptacular TJQ and BGZ practicioner with zero actual fighting skills. Which is typical
SNIP

Dunno how you reach that conclusion, as I have seen no video of her doing anything approaching fighting in any of its forms. I think some of her apps are quite good - though demoing apps on another chick is a totally different thing to actually rucking.

[DeusTrismegistus]

Turn on controversial mode: I actually think the greatest benefit that taiji has to offer to the world is as a practice of health and wellbeing. Taiji as a martial art is very hard to learn and only (martially speaking) has the benefit of possibly being able to defend yourself in a violent situation. Most people will benefit much more from getting some stretching and gentle movement with qi visualizations than from learning how to break someones arm.

End controversy: That having been said, I'm totally down for breaking arms (of other people... not my own).

IMO you will only get the maximum health benefit from taichi when the martial is added. From a qi stand point the maximum health benefit will be when the qi is flowing properly, and the maximum martial efficiency will be when the qi is flowing properly, so the martial is a way of testing your qi flow and finding out exactly where you stand, in addition to what I said earlier.