Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

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Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby cerebus on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:01 pm

So, say you're sparring someone considerably larger and heavier than you. You are a fairly strong guy yourself, with some passable skills, but your opponent comes at you with a strong, continuous attack with their momentum behind it. You try to circle out or change angles, but your opponent follows. How do you respond?

My own recent experience has shown me that I tend to stand and exchange punches, relying on my own strength and ability to absorb punisment. I realize that it would be much better to move and to hit while moving, but instinct takes over and I stand and fight rather than moving while fighting. I was going to talk to my instructor about this tonight, but my transportation arrangements changed on me, so I'll hafta wait 'til Thursday.

Do you have any specific training drills to overcome this habit? If so, I'd love to hear of them. Thanks...
Last edited by cerebus on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Ian on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:09 pm

Hold your hands behind your back, have someone (better if he's bigger, faster, and stronger) punch at your head. Slow, fast, slow, fast. Your job is to move out of the way. Bob and weave your head like a snake or a mosquito - basically unpredictable and hard to hit.

There are more, but I can't give away too many 'secrets'!
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Re: "Freight Train" Attack

Postby cerebus on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:19 pm

Ian wrote:Hold your hands behind your back, have someone (better if he's bigger, faster, and stronger) punch at your head. Slow, fast, slow, fast. Your job is to move out of the way. Bob and weave your head like a snake or a mosquito - basically unpredictable and hard to hit.

There are more, but I can't give away too many 'secrets'!


Yes, I do that drill. I don't lack the technical skills of defense, I just seem to have the instinct to stand and exchange punches when a large, aggressive opponent is attacking. Not that I CAN'T still win with such tactics, it's worked for me in the past, but I'm wanting to move to something a little more advanced & subtle and less "brawly" than my instinctive stand & punch.

So, I have the defensive technique, but I need to somehow alter my instinctive response so that those techniques are brought into play...

Thanks for the reply bro.
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Re: "Freight Train" Attack

Postby nianfong on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:22 pm

at long range, you close the distance while moving at a diagonal angle. pao/heng quan footwork. this changes the angle to the opponent considerably, and forces the freight train to change direction, which will slow it down considerably.

at mid range, you can try bagua stepping type footwork, as long as you're outside of sweeping range. otherwise, pao/heng footwork also works, if you change the angle enough.

at close range, it's harder for typical xingyi stepping to let you change the angle enough to make a difference. this is when you need to do steal steps. as mr. wang likes to say, doing bagua stepping may get you swept.

troy I'll try to bring eric this coming sunday. he's the master of changing angles. you know my "freight train" right? well he forces me to go circular, reducing my "train power" haha.

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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Ian on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:25 pm

NP, and FWIW I wasn't implying that you don't have defense skillz.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby cerebus on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:33 pm

Ian wrote:NP, and FWIW I wasn't implying that you don't have defense skillz.


Hi Ian, I know you weren't implying that, I just thought I'd mention that, though I do have the skills, my instinctive response gets in the way of my using them. Though only against such an attack as mentioned. Fong knows what I mean. When he & I have sparred, he attacks like that, and my other response (which I'm also trying to correct) is to move straight back.

I've tried to use the Heng footwork at distance, but at enough of a distance the opponent can easily alter his angle. I do find the Bagua stepping at a medium range to sometimes work well. At close range I tend to go on the offensive, which is fine, but I could stand to be much more mobile than I am while doing so...
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby C.J.Wang on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:42 pm

If you have done enough Xinyi/Bagua to acuqire solid structure, I'd recommend jamming/uprooting the opponent from a side angle with drilling or crossing fist as he came straight at you with commited attacks.

Like you said, when up against someone with good footwork, it's no enough to just evade because he can change angle quickly. You'd also need to exert pressure on/control his frame to prevent further attacks from him.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby beegs on Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:50 pm

just like when a running back is running full speed at you, you need to take the line of attack and tackle his ass, so in relation to fighting, you need to steal the angle and come in full force on his weakened angle, guys like this i like to slap one of their shots to the side and come in with a shoulder strike to the ribcage, just like a tackle, no matter how big they are, THE RIBS HURT
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby nianfong on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:10 pm

cerebus wrote:I've tried to use the Heng footwork at distance, but at enough of a distance the opponent can easily alter his angle. I do find the Bagua stepping at a medium range to sometimes work well. At close range I tend to go on the offensive, which is fine, but I could stand to be much more mobile than I am while doing so...


at "enough of a distance" he's probably too far away. you have to control the range so you can close the distance and do the off angle move in order to change your relative angle with the opponent quickly. that's what eric did to me, when I'd enter with a beng. he'd close the distance and take the off angle with one step, and then the next step would be closing the gap for a throw or a punch.

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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Muad'dib on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:14 pm

I want to understand the question more correctly.

As I read you, you basically know what to do, but your urge to just brawl gets in the way of your technical capacity to use otherwise good skills against an opponent of this type?
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby fuga on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:15 pm

Ha, Troy, I am reading this thread to figure out how I can deal with you when you send the "freight train" at me. ;D

Fong, it'd be great if you could show me that stealing step too. I promise to throw it into my sparring within 30 seconds.

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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Andy_S on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:31 pm

If you can't dance out of the way, spear him with your knee. If you train it (I don't), a Judo sacrifice throw - take him up and over - is a solid tactic against a forward, heavily committed charge.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby cerebus on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:12 pm

Zhong_Kui wrote:I want to understand the question more correctly.

As I read you, you basically know what to do, but your urge to just brawl gets in the way of your technical capacity to use otherwise good skills against an opponent of this type?


Heh, heh. Yup!
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby nianfong on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:38 pm

haha sure thing pete. I'll also warn eric to come on sunday... I think his injury may be healed enough for him to spar again.
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Re: Dealing With "Freight Train" Attack

Postby Sprint on Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:12 am

This may useful for sparring but less so for the street. If you spar with the same folks over a period of time you should get to know their preferred methods. For example one guy I used to spar with was a great kicker and would always work me to a distance that he could best kick at. It took me ages to figure out that if I could stay inside that range I had him beat. Another guy was like the assassin in the first Bourne film in the apartment in Paris. Once he got started it was just non stop. But what I found out was that he liked to wind up a bit before he got started and if I stayed in real close to him he never would start in the first place. So what I am getting at is people habitually like to fight the same way. Either you can recognize some way to derail the freight train because he always fights the same way or maybe he recognizes a shortcoming in your style and is taking advantage of the fact that you always fight the same way. The only other thing I would suggest is to train your footwork to death.
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