Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby nready on Tue May 13, 2008 3:33 pm

Yea, I do wonder why there are no Hsing Yi guys fighting in sports. I mean when the guys I know practice hsingyi they do it real fast and intense.

The sport attitude is not conducive to the people whom train in the internals. That is what I see at least.
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby cerebus on Tue May 13, 2008 3:40 pm

I suspect that alot of the people in the internal arts either:

a) don't have the time or motivation to train for full-contact events,
b) don't know how to properly train for such events,
c) are chi-hugging wimps ( ;D ) or
d) are more into the traditional arts themselves and have no interest in competition....
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby nianfong on Tue May 13, 2008 3:45 pm

shuaijiao guys are always fighting. xingyi has the same spirit. whenever I start my own school, I hope I can start training some fighters to head out into sanshou/sanda more.
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby TaoJoannes on Tue May 13, 2008 3:55 pm

Gloves and rules change everything. To succeed in a sport, you need to train for that particular sport. Top combat atheletes will tell you as much.

The stuff that I do I do for personal cultivation and self defense, in order to tailor it for sport, I'd need to change it, gut it, and train only a portion of the total. I like the idea of non-cooperative sparring, but not in an organized fashion. I don't want titles, trophies, or rank, just more knowledge and more skill.
oh qué una tela enredada que tejemos cuando primero practicamos para engañar
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby Ron Panunto on Tue May 13, 2008 4:08 pm

JuanM wrote:I'll probably have the honor of being the first post to be moved to BTDT but I'll try and post it here for the time being.

I want to know again why our arts cannot be successful or have not being successful in combat sports. Aside from the "deadly" factor (which is a major excuse used in our arts) in that the rules do not allow for breaking arms, biting, kicking the nuts or eye gauging. Why can't an IMA guy take his art and make it fit within the rule framework and be successful in sports competition? I mean, kicking someone in the nuts, biting or sticking your finger in one's eye isn't exactly high level secret stuff that combat sports competitors wouldn't be able to do in self defense situations as well.


Well Juan, are you an IMA guy? If so, why aren't you in the Octagon? If not, why are you asking this question? I mean, are you asking someone else to defend your art to you?
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby sdf on Tue May 13, 2008 4:12 pm

Real full contact :
I have a gun, and you have a gun. You say your shooting skill is better and then challenge me. We go to some remote place take our guns and on count three shoot each other simultaneously. Perhaps the one who shoots better survive to see another day.

Sport full contact :
I have a air gun with rubber bullets and you have air gun with rubber bullets. You say your shooting skill is better, advertise competition on national TV, and challenge me. We go to some public place, and in front of the crowd shoot each other on count three. Perhaps the one can't take more pain at the moment will be able to rematch another day.
:P
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby JuanM on Tue May 13, 2008 4:22 pm

Hi Ron,

You sound a bit defensive. Are these not fair questions to ask?

As to why I am not in the Octagon, my IMA skills are far below average. If I was fairly skilled in IMA I might consider it. In a month's time I will be competing in a full contact Muay Thai match but using Muay Thai. Why? I feel my Muay Thai might be a bit better than my Taiji.

Regards,

Juan
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby strawdog on Tue May 13, 2008 4:23 pm

Upon reading the last couple of post isn't obvious why TCMA's aren't successful in combat sports?
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby JuanM on Tue May 13, 2008 4:24 pm

sdf wrote:Real full contact :
I have a gun, and you have a gun. You say your shooting skill is better and then challenge me. We go to some remote place take our guns and on count three shoot each other simultaneously. Perhaps the one who shoots better survive to see another day.

Sport full contact :
I have a air gun with rubber bullets and you have air gun with rubber bullets. You say your shooting skill is better, advertise competition on national TV, and challenge me. We go to some public place, and in front of the crowd shoot each other on count three. Perhaps the one can't take more pain at the moment will be able to rematch another day.
:P


???

Sorry that's an odd comparison.
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby shawnsegler on Tue May 13, 2008 4:28 pm

One of these days some sinophile LARP'er will get some gorilla from the MMA world to let him fight with the jammies/robes and either a flute or a fan...and that guy is going to fuck someone up with that flute or fan.

It's coming. Count on it.

S- even Meynard has acknowledged the combat value of the flute.
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby sdf on Tue May 13, 2008 4:44 pm

JuanM wrote:
???

Sorry that's an odd comparison.


I don't think so. I've been training all my life to fight without wearing any gloves. In fact, I have never punched a bag with any kind of protection such as gloves and others.(sure my fists were specially prepared) Now Juan let's imagine that you and me together go to full contact without any kind of protection or glove. Considering that we are not amateur fighters (meaning we know how to punch pretty good), I guarantee that most likely after such fight either you or me (or even both of us) are going to be badly injured.

P.S. I used to fight with little or no protection. From my personal experience after one such fight it took me about three month to recover.
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby sdf on Tue May 13, 2008 4:49 pm

shawnsegler wrote:One of these days some sinophile LARP'er will get some gorilla from the MMA world to let him fight with the jammies/robes and either a flute or a fan...and that guy is going to fuck someone up with that flute or fan.


Let me guess, gorilla from MMA world will end up paying for the health damage of "fucked up person" until the rest of his life or go to prison ? ;D
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby Mut on Tue May 13, 2008 4:50 pm

why aren't TCMA's successful in sport environment.... simple most do not train for it. It really is that simple. Many schools training method is not good for competition... for that matter many schools methods are not particularly good for any form of fighting. As has been pointed out there are not many avenues for IMA guys to follow to compete in competitions. I thing Strawdog has the right of it you need to spar guys from outside your own school in order to test and refine what you do. Even if you do this the respect for IMA/TCMA does not change just the respect for you. I have one guy who I am in e-mail contact who is an exception, he is interested in working some skills in PH's and chi sao to add to his MMA stuff. BUT he is not interested in going through the process of learning in whe way that many IMA's teach.
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby Royal Dragon on Tue May 13, 2008 5:32 pm

JuanM wrote:
sdf wrote:
JuanM wrote:
I want to know again why our arts cannot be successful or have not being successful in combat sports.


I don't think it's quite correct representation. Sanda/sanshou is a sport which based on CMA


Sanda is kickboxing.


Reply]
Yet we see plenty of techniques, used under pressure, that are right out of many traditional forms.... ::)
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Re: Tell me again why TCMA's aren't successful in combatsport

Postby johnwang on Tue May 13, 2008 5:34 pm

The mind set to polish your skill against others is important. You have to enjoy of doing those thing.
I'm still allergic to "push".
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