Basics v. Basis

[Muad'dib]

I am wondering...

My recent discussion with Mut has gotten me considering. It is extremely common for people to neglect the basics in practice. This in my mind includes stancework (how is standing in one place gonna help me?), flexibility (I am fine, just a little old...), strength (It's all about softness), qi gong ("Qi" is a myth...) or other forms of what I believe is referred to in Chinese as Jibengong.

I think part of this, other than laziness, or the above comments [which were exaggerated to prove an point], is tied to the idea of these as "basics". Maybe its the western idea of just wanting to move ahead (What, you mean I have to practice these three moves for a month before I can learn the next one? For two hours a day?!?!), or just the idea that, well they are basic, as in simple, and therefore not needed for me...

An old friend of mine, an older chinese gent who did some translations at various times once referred to these as the bases. (Plural of basis). I thought he was just being idiosyncratic at the time, but looking back, I wonder if the translation is more accurate (chinese native speaker?). Even if linguistically it is not, I think from a thought method approach, it is a better way to view these exercises. These exercises, these bases, are the things upon which all future skill and development is built. A poor foundation makes a poor house. Neglected flexibility hinders power transferal. Weakness of certain muscles prevents flow of movement.

Conditioning, strength or cardio is something, most people will not argue against, though not all do them. A health body is after all fundamental to being able to fight/perform well, or for prolonged periods of time. Aren't the bases the same?

Anyway, maybe I am just blowing smoke, but I wanted to get this idea out. Thanks to Mut to bringing it to the fore.

[Dillon]

Mark MacYoung distinguishes between "basics" and "fundamentals" for this very reason.

[Mut]

Hey man, I hope i have not left you with the impression that I neglect my basics..... just our basics appear to be different. At the moment I am neglecting all of my training while I await surgery. My TCC that I posted proof of that neglect.

.... but to move on from there. Yes I think many people neglect the basics. It is very common to see new students watching seniors and think: 'i can do that' and they do... or at least they attempt too and can't make it work.

Personally I have been guilty of doing the same thing, and I am sure that at some point or other we all have. It is just a matter of whether we recognize this or not.

If we look at Qi gong.... well some schools of thought are that qi-gong is not necessary as if you practice correctly the qi gong aspect is present in your movements. Personally I am more concerned with developing connections that building and storing Qi. The way I look at it is this: if you have a garden hose that has lots of holes, it does not matter how hard you turn the tap on when the water gets to its outlet the quantity will be greatly diminished, with much wasted. If you change the hose so there are no leaks you can have the tap on lightly and still have a greater output from the end. I am not saying that one way is intrinsically better than the other, they are just different. Our teachers have different methods and as a result we have different ways of looking at things.

[kreese]

Why anyone wouldn't want to be as strong, quick, nimble, supple, coordinated, fit, and full of stamina as they can be is beyond me. Qigong and IMA are not divorced from physical reality.

Mut - how is qigong to build connections different from qigong to build and store Qi?

[edededed]

Neglecting basics (bases) is extremely common, of course, because they are:

1. Painful
2. Time-consuming
3. Boring

As for qigong - there are different kinds of qigong with different methods/objectives/results. However, some methods lead into others (i.e. building/storing qi will ultimately result in connections, etc.).

[kreese]

Ok, I just read the HAO thread so now I understand Dan's POV better. If we are talking about IMA specific basics, standing is 101 and PhD. IMA is about training methods...vagueness creeps in when we start to say, 'well, the results are the same so I don't have to do it'.

[Mut]

Kreese... my point is I don't practice qigong... as such (though I have done various methods). Practicing the movements builds the connections through movement. Hope this answers that question. As for standing being 101 and PHD, I beg to differ. There are different methods. Just because one is the common method does not make it the only method... nor perhaps even the best method. When you train you have to prioritize things to fit in with how things are. I know my view on standing is in the minority on this board... perhaps on all IMA boards. That is of no real concern to me.

vagueness creeps in when we start to say, 'well, the results are the same so I don't have to do it'.

I can't remember saying the results are the same, if that is an implication I have given I am sorry. The results are different. Practicing standing makes you better at standing... it may have some spillover into moving, but in my experience not a great deal. By practicing moving you improve your moving.... isn't TCC about movement after all? I knowethere is an element of stillness but this comes from moving fluidly not from actually being stationary. I know the counter to this is that there is movement in stillness but I still prefer the other way. It is through practicing the movement that the muscles needed to move build and learn the sequence of 'firing'. Sure if you move wrong and are not constantly mindful of correcting this it will lead to bad habits, but the same is true with standing, isn't it?

I have questioned my teacher at length about the purpose of standing vs moving and why should I not stand more. His reason was pretty simple and basically in line with my view here( though of course he can back up his view far better than I can at this juncture), Also I don't want to attribute the way I put my views to him, they are m,y interpretation of what he has taught me.

Back to theactual topic though. Basics are essential and developing a solid foundation is the root of good skill, to this I think we can all agree.

[edededed]

Standing is a very good training methods, but it is not necessarily unique in what it achieves.

[mixjourneyman]

I personally hate standing and won't do it for much more than about five minutes a day. So I circle walk instead. I have found that it is essentially the standing exercise, but moving (holding the eight basic postures at least). I really think circle walking is the most phenomenal basic because it intigrates stance work with footwork.

[edededed]

This is the bagua point of view, of course...

[kreese]

I respect your views, Mut. I guess I wanted to address some of the general anti-standing rhetoric. It's just my current opinion and bears no more or less weight than that.

I really wish I could remember the relationship between standing and walking from a Kines course I took on motor control. Alas, my notes are miles away...

[qiphlow]

i'm always returning to basics, which for me is standing. it's just a question of how much focus i give to basics and this depends on where my head is at with my practice. currently i'm doing about a 50/50 mix of standing and movement work, but there have been times when i focus almost exclusively on one or the other.
i have come to appreciate the basics more in the past couple of years.

[Bao]

Whatever you do, you should still "practice the basics" because the basics are the foundation of everything you do. I don't think basic practice and advanced practice are very different. It all depends on how advanced you are.

[Mut]

Code: Select all

Whatever you do, you should still "practice the basics" because the basics are the foundation of everything you do. I don't think basic practice and advanced practice are very different. It all depends on how advanced you are.

QFT

[Ben]

Whatever you do, you should still "practice the basics" because the basics are the foundation of everything you do. I don't think basic practice and advanced practice are very different. It all depends on how advanced you are.

I agree, I still try to practice the basics regurarly. More and more I find myself thinking, "Less is more" when it comes to exercises.