John Wang Taiji/SC Question

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John Wang Taiji/SC Question

Postby Andy_S on Tue May 13, 2008 6:49 pm

John:

On the "Internal" thread you posted that there is no difference in your training between:
- Taiji brush knee and SC inner leg hook,
- Taiji cloud hand and SC arm locking kick,
- Taiji pull back and SC diagonal pull,
- Taiji fair lady work on shuttle and SC diagonal strike,

Could you explain how you use:
Taiji Cloud Hand/SC Arm Locking Kick; and
Taiji Pull Back/SC Diagonal Strike

I don't believe I am familiar with these SC techniques...? Thanks.

BTW, you do/used to do GM Chang's Taiji set. Did it have any beneficial effect on your SC? If so - what? If not - why not? (GM Chang did it, so presumably he saw some value in it).

Cheers in advance
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Re: John Wang Taiji/SC Question

Postby shawnsegler on Tue May 13, 2008 7:42 pm

I thought JW once said that GM Chang just learned it to say that he knew it.

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Re: John Wang Taiji/SC Question

Postby nianfong on Tue May 13, 2008 8:10 pm

I practice taichi to make myself softer and more fluid in my SC, while keeping the structure (back straight). my teacher encourages that in all of us--to relax our arms more when we are sparring. he has us use many taichi principles while sparring.

GM definitely saw benefit in it, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered with it.

-Fong
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Re: John Wang Taiji/SC Question

Postby johnwang on Tue May 13, 2008 9:53 pm

Taiji Cloud Hand/SC Arm Locking Kick: http://johnswang.com/arm_lock_kick.wmv

Taiji Pull Back/SC Diagonal Strike: Don't have clip for this. It's the SC #4 basic sole form training. It's a stand up "arm bar".

As far as the comparison of SC and Taiji, let me put it in this way, if you are used to do thing all the way then half way of doing thing won't satisfy you.

本是「捨己從人」、多誤「捨近求遠」。所謂「差之毫釐、謬之千里」、學者不可不詳辨焉!是為論。

捨己從人 means that you give up yourself for others. If you are willing to give up your root in order to destroy your opponent's root, you then regain your root after that then Taiji and SC will have no difference. Unfortunately the spirit of 捨己從人 is not popular in the Taiji system.
Last edited by johnwang on Tue May 13, 2008 10:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: John Wang Taiji/SC Question

Postby nianfong on Wed May 14, 2008 1:20 am

nice post, mr. wang.
for the others, if you didn't realize, that line mr. wang quoted is the last line of the taichi treatise.
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Re: John Wang Taiji/SC Question

Postby cdobe on Wed May 14, 2008 1:42 am

I agree that it's a nice post.

However, 捨己從人 is absolutely popular in TJQ. It's about following the opponents actions closely and about adapting to the opponents actions instead of forcing your own applications.

CD (since there are so many Chris on eF ;) )
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Re: John Wang Taiji/SC Question

Postby johnwang on Wed May 14, 2008 1:54 am

You are right about that. That principle can be explained as you have described. I just borrow that principle as one example that we may have to take some risk in order to obtain benefit from it. By using your definition, you may fight the way that your opponent intends to lead you into instead of the way you like to fight. That's why I don't like to interpreter that principle as you did.

There is big difference between moving in while your opponent steps back by his own well instead of you force him to step back. You may fall into his trap in the 1st case but he may fall into your trap in the 2nd.

In SC you can use the "emptiness" principle by stepping back and give your opponent plenty of space so he will feel safe to step in. When he steps in, you then step in and meet him half way. This way, you will have enough distance to accelerate.
Last edited by johnwang on Wed May 14, 2008 3:01 am, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: John Wang Taiji/SC Question

Postby Buddy on Wed May 14, 2008 7:20 am

Great stuff, looks like Gao style. But fa crissakes throw the goddamn bone for the dog.

Thanks John.
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