Kettlebells and rings for MA?

[Chris Fleming]

http://www.gyrotonic.com/newsclipsweb-1.mov

I am NOT giving up my kettlebells for this!!!

It's like anything else-- you can market it to the hippies or you can do it for Teh Realz.

True. It looks great if you need rehab or something like that, but how on earth would this ever develop higher levels of functional strength?

[Chris Fleming]

Speaking of Teh Realz, check out this fag.

http://www.kettleworx.com/infomercial.html

[Bhassler]

http://www.gyrotonic.com/newsclipsweb-1.mov

I am NOT giving up my kettlebells for this!!!

It's like anything else-- you can market it to the hippies or you can do it for Teh Realz.

True. It looks great if you need rehab or something like that, but how on earth would this ever develop higher levels of functional strength?

It's very similar to the mechanics of IMA. The machine functions more as either a neurological cueing mechanism or as support to release compensation patterns rather than resistance.

As a very simple exercise, start by crunching the abs, so the muscles bulge outward as you fold your ribcage closer to the front of your pelvis. If you put one hand in the small of your back, you'll see that you can do this movement without significantly changing the amount of curve in the lumbar spine. If you think of the natural curve of the low back, you can think of the front of yourself being long and the back being short. With this type of crunching movement, you are simply shortening the front, so you are short in front and short in back.

The next level would be to hollow out the belly (pull the belly-button to the spine) as you bring the ribs closer to the pelvis, so the low back rounds. In this case we are activating the abdominals in such a way that we are short in front but long in back. Already, very few people can do this correctly, and even among those who are able to do the movement, it may not be an evenly distributed curve (forward flexion) through the length of the lower (lumbar) spine. This type of abdominal work is typical of Pilates. At this point, if someone has a stiff lower back (which means overactive low back muscles), they will almost certainly not improve usage of their spine doing something as ballistic and strenuous as KB lifts, and in fact it would probably be dangerous to attempt do so.

The next level is to create flexion in the spine without shortening the distance between the ribcage and the pelvis--this is accomplished by dropping the sacrum down towards the floor to that one is both long in front and long in back. Within this context, there is a lot of work that can be done as far as releasing unneccesary tension and more allowing the back to lengthen without shortening the front rather than forcing it. This starts to get into the realm of tensegrity, stretching the spine, and creating resistance via internal stretching instead of external weight. This type of movement is what makes Gyrotonic go and has a lot to do with IMA. To go back to something like KBs, this type of movement would allow a person to move weights in positions that are generally considered taboo (lifitng heavy weight with a rounded back, etc) with perfect safety, the caveat being that if you screw up and lose connection you can really hurt yourself. For most people KBs are too intense to try to learn this type of movement, but once a person has learned it, it can be applied anywhere. Of course, this all relates to just the lower back, and can be extended throughout the entire person. Gyrotonic, then, is a health and healing modality that among other things tries to systematically teach this concept and it's variations throughout the whole body.

[Formosa Neijia]

You folks need to try CST with Indian clubs. You'll look better naked:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6955629611

She certainly looks good naked.

I was under the impression that the clubs were mainly for shoulder rehab. The swings look great building shoulder flexibility. I see that they could be done for core stabilization with high reps, but aren't they a bit unwieldy?

What's your experience with them? did they work for you?

Dave C.

[Formosa Neijia]

True. It looks great if you need rehab or something like that, but how on earth would this ever develop higher levels of functional strength?

I'm not sure that it would. I see Gyrotonics as a type of silk-reeling. It would be useful for refining strength rather than building it in the first place. I certainly don't see it replacing a KB or power lifting program in terms of functional strength.

This starts to get into the realm of tensegrity, stretching the spine, and creating resistance via internal stretching instead of external weight. This type of movement is what makes Gyrotonic go and has a lot to do with IMA. To go back to something like KBs, this type of movement would allow a person to move weights in positions that are generally considered taboo (lifitng heavy weight with a rounded back, etc) with perfect safety, the caveat being that if you screw up and lose connection you can really hurt yourself.

That sounds pretty dangerous to me. Personally I wouldn't try something like that because the margin for error is too small. I think Gyrotonics sounds like a useful modality but i wouldn't extend it beyond its limitations (which every system has).

The alignments for KBs and powerlifting, etc. exist because they are general guidelines for the majority of people that do those practices. They represent the safest, most efficient way as determined by a broad community. IMO playing with those may be allowed for a small subset of people but the rest would likely just get hurt. And with heavy weights....

Dave C.

[Bhassler]

The alignments for KBs and powerlifting, etc. exist because they are general guidelines for the majority of people that do those practices. They represent the safest, most efficient way as determined by a broad community. IMO playing with those may be allowed for a small subset of people but the rest would likely just get hurt. And with heavy weights....

In general I agree with you, but I also consider the possibility that much of what passes for innate ability or talent is an intuitive understanding (more often than not based on dumb luck) of the principles practiced in IMA/Gyrotonic, etc. It's not particularly dangerous if practiced consciously and with an awareness of one's own limitations relative to skill rather than strength. Certainly in my experience, the ignorance with which most people use themselves is far more dangerous than the alternative, regardless of how it's applied.

[Chris Fleming]

You folks need to try CST with Indian clubs. You'll look better naked:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6955629611

I don't know about naked...






Clubs are lighter in his older age but you can't fuck with the Sheik!

[fuga]

I was under the impression that the clubs were mainly for shoulder rehab. The swings look great building shoulder flexibility. I see that they could be done for core stabilization with high reps, but aren't they a bit unwieldy?

What's your experience with them? did they work for you?

Dave C.

I integrate clubs into my training. They are actually really good grip training tools in addition to working the shoulders. I see them less as a shoulder rehab tool and more of something working on range of motion, strength and stability for the shoulder. I combine them with sledgehammer work (gada swings) so in many ways I am doing a Hindu/Persian inspired workout (with some lion dancing sledgehammer drills that Dr. Fish was kind enough to share).

Unwieldy in a club is part of the point in working the grip. Somatai put up some videos previously of his work with clubs. Also, in that Steve Maxwell blog I pointed to earlier, he shows some of the other clubs exercises.

-pete

[Dale Dugas]

I do bells, as well as use a sledgehammer, iron rings, weight vest, water filled balls, and all sorts of unwieldy things to help me train my core, as well as functional strength.

I mix it up knowing that one thing is not the end all be all.

I like circling with my bells and vest as well. I have some vids up on youtube. you can find them through my site.

[CaliG]

I agree they are all good. I tend to focus on one for awhile then switch up. Because there isn't one end all be all exercise it just depends on what area you want to improve.

For example if you find yourself having a hard time escaping from pins then here's a good exercise I just found. Then once you get that down pretty good after months of training it then pick another...