Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

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Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby marvin8 on Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:23 am

Ramsey Dewey
Jun 13, 2021

Kyuzo Mifune was one of the most prolific judo practitioners next to the founder of the art himself, Jigoro Kano.

After an MMA training session, I showed some of my students an old film real of Mifune doing randori (sparring in judo, where the objective is to throw the other man to the floor) with a group of highly skilled advanced black belts, beating them all one after the other. Mifune was close to 80 years old at the time of filming. Mifune stood only 5’2” tall and weighed a meager percentage 100 lbs. Yet throughout his life, Mifune was able to defeat much larger, stronger opponents with his martial arts skills.

The cat-like reflexes, balance, and weight distribution, and “floating” movement quality Mifune shows in these video clips is a demonstration of the highest level of judo, and yet, it is something mechanically simple that can be integrated into many different aspects of grappling, wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai, and mixed martial arts. In this video, I show some wrestling applications of Mifune’s “floating” movement to counter takedown and sweep attempts.

I decided to share these thoughts after my friend Lukas https://youtu.be/G3uScF8rZII used a similar “floating” counter during a sparring session at the Shanghai UFC Performance Institute. This is not a “how to” video. The intention is not to teach you how to do a floating harai goshi counter throw in mid air. Instead, I want you to start asking questions about the efficiency of your own movement patterns and training routines.

There is much to be learned from old film studies. Give it a try!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utCY6YRnycw
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby yeniseri on Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:13 pm

It is not old at all!
Judo once used newaza ('ground technique) as part of training but somehow the throwing aspect became the sine qua non of what may be termed 'modern judo" (I lack the descriptive to convey it at this time!). Count Maeda from the old school retained that aspect of newaza and brought it to Brazil as part of the BJJ/Gracie family art.
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:13 am

Might make sense if the students were actually trying to throw the maestro. They are not.
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby marvin8 on Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:30 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Might make sense if the students were actually trying to throw the maestro. They are not.

I felt similar, until Ramsey mentioned it. Looking closer at Mifune and Lucas (judoka) sparring at the UFC PI in Shanghai, they both showed some skill (e.g., listening, positioning, timing).

As the opponent commits his forward momentum and is on one leg, Lucas listens, positions and counters:

Image
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby dspyrido on Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:37 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Might make sense if the students were actually trying to throw the maestro. They are not.


Spot on. I guess Ramsey has never heard of a suplex.
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby marvin8 on Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:45 pm

dspyrido wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Might make sense if the students were actually trying to throw the maestro. They are not.


Spot on. I guess Ramsey has never heard of a suplex.

A suplex (or ura nage in judo) is when one throws an opponent backwards, behind them. In Ramsey's video, the guy is throwing Lucas forwards. Using your argument/logic, "I guess you never heard of a suplex?"
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby vadaga on Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:37 am

I think that the bearhugging guy should have either cleared his head or rolled through as demonstrated in the end of the vid here
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby marvin8 on Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:39 am

vadaga wrote:I think that the bearhugging guy should have either cleared his head or rolled through as demonstrated in the end of the vid here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gmkKaZPbUY

The difference is the guy in your video had both feet planted.

The guy in the OP video was walking Lukas towards the center of the cage. Before he could finish his 3rd step (or throw him), Lukas switched his hips, positioned himself and threw the guy.
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby dspyrido on Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm

marvin8 wrote:
dspyrido wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Might make sense if the students were actually trying to throw the maestro. They are not.


Spot on. I guess Ramsey has never heard of a suplex.

A suplex (or ura nage in judo) is when one throws an opponent backwards, behind them. In Ramsey's video, the guy is throwing Lucas forwards. Using your argument/logic, "I guess you never heard of a suplex?"


Dude 1 was on the back & had his arms around his chest so he decides to ... pick him up and go for a walk?

Nope - drop weight, get waist, arch back.
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:46 am

dspyrido wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
dspyrido wrote:Spot on. I guess Ramsey has never heard of a suplex.

A suplex (or ura nage in judo) is when one throws an opponent backwards, behind them. In Ramsey's video, the guy is throwing Lucas forwards. Using your argument/logic, "I guess you never heard of a suplex?"


Dude 1 was on the back & had his arms around his chest so he decides to ... pick him up and go for a walk?

Nope - drop weight, get waist, arch back.

Nope. Dude 1 was chest to chest with Lukas & had his arms around his back (a common position to end up in), when "he decides to ... pick him up and go for a walk." How do you propose he does a suplex, while they are chest to chest?

Regardless, how does that mean "Ramsey has never heard of a suplex?" which appears to be an illogical, ad hominem, straw person argument. A more relevant question, do you believe (argue) that it is not possible to float and counter an opponent? If so, why?
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby dspyrido on Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:55 pm

marvin8 wrote:Nope. Dude 1 was chest to chest with Lukas & had his arms around his back (a common position to end up in), when "he decides to ... pick him up and go for a walk." How do you propose he does a suplex, while they are chest to chest?

Regardless, how does that mean "Ramsey has never heard of a suplex?" which appears to be an illogical, ad hominem, straw person argument. A more relevant question, do you believe (argue) that it is not possible to float and counter an opponent? If so, why?


Have you wrestled? As I said "drop weight".

As for logic fallacies & the rest of the blah blah blah - no matter how much desire it to be different everything you say is opinion much like the rest of us on this board.
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:10 pm

dspyrido wrote:Nope - drop weight, get waist, arch back. ...

As I said "drop weight".

But, that drives you faster and harder into the ground, on your back, with Lukas on top of you. Why would you want to do that?

Any comment on the OP topic itself and what Ramsey actually said?
marvin8 wrote:A more relevant question, do you believe (argue) that it is not possible to float and counter an opponent? If so, why?
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby wiesiek on Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:11 am

i agree with the point of >drop the weight< (under), as the basic rule.
However, sometimes you have to>roll over< if you like to find the place to "drop".
This is the case of >floating over for counter<
It is possible jf you have good sense of the center and elastic body.
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby vadaga on Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:01 am

@Marvin8 - the roll through might have been more applicable. Demonstrated at the end of both of these two vids



I am not the judo expert here but most of the things I have been seeing on youtube says that you need control of the one arm and no locked bearhug to succeed with koshi guruma or you will either get rolled through or suplexed

Afa suplex or 2:30 here
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Re: Float like Mifune: Old Judo Concept Used for MMA, Etc.

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:38 pm

marvin8 wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Might make sense if the students were actually trying to throw the maestro. They are not.

I felt similar, until Ramsey mentioned it. Looking closer at Mifune and Lucas (judoka) sparring at the UFC PI in Shanghai, they both showed some skill (e.g., listening, positioning, timing).

As the opponent commits his forward momentum and is on one leg, Lucas listens, positions and counters:

Image


I agree that Mifune Sensei is showing skills that can be learned from and applied as in the vid you posted. I was just pointing out that Mifune wasn't "beating" all those students of his. The video is often presented that way, and it's just not so. It's still always a pleasure to watch him work. His similar newaza video is more impressive, imo.
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