Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

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Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:23 pm

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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby Bao on Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:40 pm

I would rather say that this is about someone clueless who hasn’t learned the basics or the fundamental principles than intentional faking.
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:39 pm

Bao wrote:I would rather say that this is about someone clueless who hasn’t learned the basics or the fundamental principles than intentional faking.


Well, that person then using web marketing tricks to reach a huge audience then offer to certify instructors while legitimate practitioners with skills are too busy backbiting each other to be the rising tide that lifts all ships.
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby Bhassler on Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:06 pm

Seems legit. Looking forward to seeing her totally lose her shit and go on a McDojo-storming rampage.



As for the tide raising all ships, it will never happen when so many fight so fiercely to remain anchored in the muck of their own fantasies.
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:36 pm

"Never met a word that I wouldn't like a weapon just brandish."
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby Bao on Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:12 am

oragami_itto wrote:Well, that person then using web marketing tricks to reach a huge audience then offer to certify instructors while legitimate practitioners with skills are too busy backbiting each other to be the rising tide that lifts all ships.


People who want simple exercises that are easy to learn, or any kind of cheap instructors certificate, will still reach out for people like this.

I say: let the people who wants to be lazy and ignorant go to her, and I'll take on a few people who really wants to commit and actually use their brains to easily see through the cheap marketing tricks.

If people don't want to see or hear clearly, don't force them to use their common sense which is something they already have. It's their own choice to either take the first easy opportunity to learn anything called this or that, or to look around and compare.
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:16 am

I have taught Chinese martial arts professionally since 1973. Throughout the years since then, I've seen dozens of phony teachers appear and subsequently disappear again and again. Most enjoyed an initial following of gullible students who naively bought into their self-acclaimed ranks and titles sold via slick marketing and advertising campaigns. However, since these guys usually only have a novice to intermediate skill level themselves, they aren't able to sustain longterm students who want more than that. They eventually exhaust the local supply of total beginners which are needed to keep their bs gig afloat.

Thus, the best way to deal with the pretenders and posers is simply to personally develop and demonstrate genuine expertise of your own by comparison, which attracts students who seek more than the fakes can ever teach. This works for me. I'm still teaching students of all skill levels from beginners to advanced, but the phonies of years past are nowhere to be found anymore. :P
Last edited by Doc Stier on Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:02 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:34 pm

I have been teaching the 3 internals since 73 also
I must disagree some have come and gone
Others who I know to be fake and with dubious credentials but have good ability to con have prospered over the years
Their legacy lives on in their children and followers
The thing that is worse is they knew they were leading people down false paths
I am not sure that their followers do
The myth and misinformation grows in strength
Those that train in these methods are almost unreachable to the point that I don’t accept students from certain schools
They are just too frustrating to teach
The other point is they camouflage the legitimate teachers in the landscape
The park I train in each day has 2 free tai chi schools who each teach there one day a week
They also teach in other parks each day
Who wants to pay for something that takes time and effort and dedication when you can get effortless stuff for free
The worst thing is that when they leave they think they know the length and breath of the art and tell others what it is without ever having seen the real thing
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:42 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I have been teaching the 3 internals since 73 also
I must disagree some have come and gone
Others who I know to be fake and with dubious credentials but have good ability to con have prospered over the years
Their legacy lives on in their children and followers
The thing that is worse is they knew they were leading people down false paths
I am not sure that their followers do
The myth and misinformation grows in strength
Those that train in these methods are almost unreachable to the point that I don’t accept students from certain schools
They are just too frustrating to teach
The other point is they camouflage the legitimate teachers in the landscape
The park I train in each day has 2 free tai chi schools who each teach there one day a week
They also teach in other parks each day
Who wants to pay for something that takes time and effort and dedication when you can get effortless stuff for free
The worst thing is that when they leave they think they know the length and breath of the art and tell others what it is without ever having seen the real thing


The problem the video states is two fold.

1) unqualified teachers spreading garbage
2) qualified teachers ignoring or fighting each other instead of working together to promote quality

Consider what The Martial Man is doing. Finding and promoting quality teachers. Bringing them together under one roof to make them accessible and spread their teaching.

Now I know a lot of people's first impulse there is to scoff at the suggestion that they are quality. Fair enough. But they ARE building on each other's success. What they aren't doing is sitting in the ivory tower of their lineage casting aspersions on fellow travelers. They're cross promoting and cross pollinating and coming out that much better on the other side.

That first impulse there is kind of the problem, don't you see?
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:56 pm

I have seen some good stuff he has promoted but other stuff is questionable
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby Bhassler on Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:10 pm

oragami_itto wrote:Consider what The Martial Man is doing. Finding and promoting quality teachers. Bringing them together under one roof to make them accessible and spread their teaching.

Now I know a lot of people's first impulse there is to scoff at the suggestion that they are quality. Fair enough. But they ARE building on each other's success. What they aren't doing is sitting in the ivory tower of their lineage casting aspersions on fellow travelers. They're cross promoting and cross pollinating and coming out that much better on the other side.

That first impulse there is kind of the problem, don't you see?


It's not a question of whether or not they are "quality"-- it's an issue of using stage tricks to actively misrepresent what they are doing and why it works. Calling out actual bullshit is not the same as "sitting in the ivory tower of... lineage casting aspersions on fellow travelers".

So there's "kind of" a disagreement on what the actual problem is, and the con men and frauds just love it when people chime in asking "can't we all just get along?"
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:12 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I have seen some good stuff he has promoted but other stuff is questionable


Sure, but the point is, don't you know anybody other than your teachers and students who is out there putting in the good work and getting good results? Wouldn't you rather direct people there than just tell them that they aren't learning shit and they never will? Wouldn't you appreciate having good students sent your way?

Not saying I have any answers or anything, just that maybe there's something to working a little harder to work together.
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:17 pm

There will always be a few successful frauds, who regularly reinvent themselves in order to capitalize on the most popular current martial art fads. The ones I have known were in turn self-acclaimed experts in karate, ninjitsu, jeet kune do, shaolin kungfu, tai chi chuan, kali, bjj, etc.

Like chameleons, they simply shift the focus of their advertising and marketing to take advantage of whatever is presently trending in popularity. Some even attempt to combine basic elements of many different arts to create their own proprietary style or system, of which they are the founder and grandmaster. Of course, in the end of it all, they are little more than paper tigers, who are usually incapable of validating their grandiose claims when put to the test in the presence of authentic martial art skills.

Such delusions of grandeur generally end in pathetic public embarrassment. :-\
Last edited by Doc Stier on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:29 pm

The problem with promoting teachers is people think they are all a similar level
So the shonkey ones get carried with the tide
I don’t really send people to other teachers because that holds a certain responsibility for the marriage
As for having people sent my way the answer is likewise
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Stop the Spread of Fake Tai Chi

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:37 pm

Doc

There is nothing wrong with starting your own system
It can be a way of not making your forebares carry your load
Because of what I see out there I find it hard to call what I do tai chi because it differs from the common understanding
What I do differs from my teachers even though I can teach as they taught me
However they have advanced and so have I
Our students would recognise each other but know they differ
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