What do you think

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What do you think

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:51 am

Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: What do you think

Postby Trip on Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:09 am

wayne hansen wrote:https://youtu.be/SN8-Wr5mHbQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN8-Wr5mHbQ
Last edited by Trip on Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do you think

Postby origami_itto on Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:01 am

Haven't gotten too far, but like here, he's basically crouching and the sandbag is throwing himself onto his frame and then he's just pushing with his legs to launch the guy.
Image

I generally think it is more impressive without the level change, or if you're going to move visibly, then with a counter action, not just a lifting.
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Re: What do you think

Postby windwalker on Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:22 am

wayne hansen wrote:https://youtu.be/SN8-Wr5mHbQ



Interesting

Taught the 37 step in Korea in the mid 80s to some GI's and a KATUSA "Korean AugmentationTo the US Army"
Close friend of mine, very much into martial arts.

He would later go on to study 태껸 Taekkyon, quite similar to taiji in many aspects...

The clip..

The teacher seems a little stiff...Would be interesting to know his linage.
Wonder if he learned in Korea or Taiwan...
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do you think

Postby marvin8 on Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:43 am

windwalker wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:https://youtu.be/SN8-Wr5mHbQ

The teacher seems a little stiff...Would be interesting to know his linage.
Wonder if he learned in Korea or Taiwan...

Excerpt from "INSTRUCTOR Lee Chan, Taichi Grand Master:"

Lee Chan wrote:About me
The master, Lee Chan


started to learn Taekwondo as he was interested in martial art from childhood and changed into the Chinese martial arts at the age of 18. He learned and practiced Shaolinquan and Tanglangquan from the teachers of Lee Deok-Gang, Kang Yong-Il, Choi Young-Geun and Song Kee-Cheon. He was indulged into qigong and Tai Chi Chuan from 1978 and self-trained the Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan by acquiring Yang Cheng Fu’s [Illustrative drawings on how to use Tai Chi Chuan] and from his martial art associate, Choi In-Kook. Later on, he entered into Tai Chi Chuan formally inspired by Master Rui Pin San’s praise on Tai Chi Chuan and recommendation of inherited training by Master Kang Yong-Il.

He opened the Jung Moo Martial Art Studio in 1980. He learned from Grand Master Chu Hong Ping who was the best disciple of Cheng Man-Ching and Master Tan Ching Ngee privately and changed his studio’s name from the Jung Moo Martial Art Studio to Lee Chan Taichichuan Center.

Lee Chan Taichi TV
May 12, 2021

Cheng Man-Ching Taichi 37 form】Application 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D19Z2Bmcuo
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Re: What do you think

Postby Bhassler on Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:32 am

In my experience, the "bouncing people out" sort of thing as seen around 0:55 doesn't carry over very well to fighting, or even to push hands against an athletic opponent who just wants to shove you around and isn't trying to tai chi you to death. In a similar vein, the applications are all based on unrealistic attacks, and as shown likely wouldn't carry over to a more fighty context. That said, all that stuff can have a place in teaching and learning, and by itself isn't necessarily and indication of "bad" taiji, or whatever. So my answer to "what do you think" would be that it all looks pretty common and not particularly interesting. I get a lot more excited seeing the stuff that is designed to actually build skills rather than just demo them.
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Re: What do you think

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:26 pm

Can you point out one that does that
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Re: What do you think

Postby Bhassler on Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:05 am

wayne hansen wrote:Can you point out one that does that


I can't think of any taiji videos off the top of my head. I liked the Arnis drills you linked to for that reason. I'll see if I can recall any after thinking about it for a while.
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Re: What do you think

Postby origami_itto on Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:03 am

Bhassler wrote:In my experience, the "bouncing people out" sort of thing as seen around 0:55 doesn't carry over very well to fighting, or even to push hands against an athletic opponent who just wants to shove you around and isn't trying to tai chi you to death. In a similar vein, the applications are all based on unrealistic attacks, and as shown likely wouldn't carry over to a more fighty context. That said, all that stuff can have a place in teaching and learning, and by itself isn't necessarily and indication of "bad" taiji, or whatever. So my answer to "what do you think" would be that it all looks pretty common and not particularly interesting. I get a lot more excited seeing the stuff that is designed to actually build skills rather than just demo them.


The "bouncing out" is really just being nice. If you aim it a little differently the same amount of energy goes into the body and stays there instead of lifting the mass off the ground.
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Re: What do you think

Postby Bhassler on Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:04 pm

origami_itto wrote:
Bhassler wrote:In my experience, the "bouncing people out" sort of thing as seen around 0:55 doesn't carry over very well to fighting, or even to push hands against an athletic opponent who just wants to shove you around and isn't trying to tai chi you to death. In a similar vein, the applications are all based on unrealistic attacks, and as shown likely wouldn't carry over to a more fighty context. That said, all that stuff can have a place in teaching and learning, and by itself isn't necessarily and indication of "bad" taiji, or whatever. So my answer to "what do you think" would be that it all looks pretty common and not particularly interesting. I get a lot more excited seeing the stuff that is designed to actually build skills rather than just demo them.


The "bouncing out" is really just being nice. If you aim it a little differently the same amount of energy goes into the body and stays there instead of lifting the mass off the ground.


I'm talking specifically about the shown applications where I push on your arms, and you launch me out by a minimal movement. The energy can't go into my body because there's no body contact. The dramatic outcome relies upon me committing 100% of my intent to attacking your arms with my arms. I've trained with a number of skilled folks who were really good at that sort of thing, and I've seen a number of them struggle when opponents were no longer attacking their arms from a stationary position. I've been thrown out in not-nice fashions many times, though, so I know what that's about.
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Re: What do you think

Postby origami_itto on Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:07 pm

Bhassler wrote:I'm talking specifically about the shown applications where I push on your arms, and you launch me out by a minimal movement. The energy can't go into my body because there's no body contact. The dramatic outcome relies upon me committing 100% of my intent to attacking your arms with my arms. I've trained with a number of skilled folks who were really good at that sort of thing, and I've seen a number of them struggle when opponents were no longer attacking their arms from a stationary position. I've been thrown out in not-nice fashions many times, though, so I know what that's about.


I agree it's got to be the right context for it to make sense. In push hands I've experienced and pulled it off by inducing a sort of falling forward that then causes them to try to steady themselves on me. The action is kind of baked in if you do like a counterweight sort of lift where you're sinking and your arms are lifting and the centerpoint is between the two.

The other way I've used it is defusing, when someone tries to push past or push you down, absorb and return into them, probably higher percentage there to attack the body versus the arms.

In both cases, though, there's that wtf moment where they're tense that it slides into.

That's why the demo here is just IMHO some counterfit shit. Like the gif I posted, look how his feet come off the ground when he pushes the guy.

To quote Yang Lu Chan... "Can this be called Taijiquan?"
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Re: What do you think

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Mar 31, 2023 7:17 pm

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