Oh boy some more push hands vids

[GrahamB]

How do you tai chi your way out of a wet paper bag?

It might be immune to fajin, and would yield to your attacks... it's the ultimate master of soft.

Of course, if somebody does fight their way out of a wet paper bag, I'm sure the correct response is to say it wasn't tai chi.

[windwalker]

How do you tai chi your way out of a wet paper bag?

It might be immune to fajin, and would yield to your attacks... it's the ultimate master of soft.

Of course, if somebody does fight their way out of a wet paper bag, I'm sure the correct response is to say it wasn't tai chi.

Interesting comment…


What is or not taiji, also historically discussed

Even among “yang” family lines the practice can be quite different..
Maybe something expected with something named after a philosophical concept
Interpreted in different ways… .

Wet paper bag

We talk about the real and fake..
It might be better to understand what makes something real or not….

Some on this thread have talked about extending their Qi down and past the finger tips..

One might ask . If one can really do this what would be the reaction of someone encountering this from someone really able to do it....

[origami_itto]

How do you tai chi your way out of a wet paper bag?

It might be immune to fajin, and would yield to your attacks... it's the ultimate master of soft.

Of course, if somebody does fight their way out of a wet paper bag, I'm sure the correct response is to say it wasn't tai chi.

Interesting comment…


What is or not taiji, also historically discussed

Even among “yang” family lines the practice can be quite different..
Maybe something expected with something named after a philosophical concept
Interpreted in different ways… .

Wet paper bag

We talk about the real and fake..
It might be better to understand what makes something real or not….

Some on this thread have talked about extending their Qi down and past the finger tips..

One might ask . If one can really do this what would be the reaction of someone encountering this from someone really able to do it....

The whole thing is ludicrous. "External" or "internal" is bad thinking. Internal training to produce external results, full stop. They merge in application.

The difference comes between hardness and softness.

So with Onassis in this clip, essentially I'm just harder, less sung, and he's able to ting that and move me into my void.

I get better at responding and countering but he's just ahead of me so after 3-4 I'm still toast. At one point he's just going "through" my force, but really it's "around" my force.

Now compare how that looks with me pushing with a less skilled and more hardness based player, Eli (I think he did Shotokan or something?). Onassis was working with Alex who does more competition type events.

When I'm pushed out, I'm still working on trying to neutralize and the force is just too much but I'm never "out of control" or "falling"

This was just before working with Onassis, too, part of why I was so stiff going in, you sort of pick up on the vibe of your partner.

[wayne hansen]

The reason I comment on clips like this because no one else is willing to offend the precious by saying what is going on
One thing I realised about Chat GPT and tai chi is
When people use Chat they Hoover up all that has been written previously by those with knowledge and not
Then what is written is then absorbed into the next article ad infanitum
In the end it only has misinformation to draw from
This is the same when people post bad pushing here
They get comments like Congratulations for the courage to post
So on it goes until poor quality is the standard
Next all their mates chime in and Randori anyone who has an alternative view
Hell in a handcart is the saying that comes to mind
You all become a part of the game

[windwalker]

You all become a part of the game

Thinking the game is in your head.....

People should be encouraged to post clips of their work...

Should they want commentary on it
they can always ask.

For people who criticize other's work, they never seem have any of their own clips to post,
or of their students showing the correct, or rather a viewpoint.

Do agree about the chat GP taiji stuff...
the why I ask to see clips of what some write about....

[windwalker]

T
This is the same when people post bad pushing here
They get comments like Congratulations for the courage to post

What is "bad pushing"


Should follow the teachings of what ever line of taiji that one follows....
maybe outside of those teachings it would be considered not correct.....

for those within the teachings.

Used to go to different places in the bay area to meet up with others and practice...
Stopped doing so after awhile finding that most of the problems that people had would require them to
relearn what they thought they were doing....
something either their teachers should correct or they should come to understand..

Or perhaps it was something they liked...

[wayne hansen]

The fact that you ask what bad pushing is says a lot

[windwalker]

The fact that you ask what bad pushing is says a lot

You really do live in your own mind .

Try re-reading the question.

To be clear

What do you consider to be bad pushing?

consider all of it a type of training exercise
Hence, no good or bad . People do use it as an indication of skill level,
which I don’t agree with, but understand why they do. .

Others may have a different viewpoint.

What’s yours?

[wayne hansen]

Try re reading your own question
Not from the point of how you meant it but from how it reads to others
We all live in our own minds
What specific part of your post do you want me to respond to

[Doc Stier]

I often wonder what the real reasons are for posting video clips of personal performance on sites like this. Anyone who doesn't know by now that whatever they post as video is likely to be thoroughly roasted, hasn't been paying attention.

It usually seems that the feedback received is not what was sought or hoped for, resulting in disappointment or anger, which doesn't do anyone any good.

My personal preference has always been to seek advice and critique from my own teachers, who have an interest in helping me learn and improve, rather than from people I don't really know and whose opinions are irrelevant to me.

[windwalker]

My personal preference has always been to seek advice and critique from my own teachers, who have an interest in helping me learn and improve, rather than from people I don't really know and whose opinions are irrelevant to me.

totally agree

As to posting clips....

view it as a way of showing what one is talking about or has experienced by others they may know.
Either allowing those reading to view hopefully aiding in understanding or others having the understanding to appreciate the work of others.

For example, if one says they have no grabbing in their practice, but use sticking instead..

Might be nice to see what this means, how it's used ...

BruceP wrote:

It's only acceptable to be critical of a person's work if that person isn't an RSFer.
If someone is critical of an RSfer's work, they're just rude...or worse.

I posted lots of my work back in the day and it'd get shit on by people who couldn't tai chi their way out of a wet paper bag. It was always entertaining and often hilarious.

Some of the newer people here need to get a helmet

One might ask why, why do others post clips of fails, while never exposing their own work...
One would think that on a site dedicated to IMA, people would post clips of those using their work successfully,,
Or their own work teaching, demos, or events...
Kudos to those that do

[origami_itto]

I share because I love the art and want more people to get more exposure to what it is so hopefully they might get interested in it and show up at the park some day. People in the community that can't make it thank me for making them available.

I enjoy discussing the technical and stylistic (individual expression) aspects of the practice and enjoy useful critique and information from where ever it comes. It can often help me understand what my teacher is trying to tell me by hearing it from another perspective or hearing about a different approach entirely.

"Your pushing sucks" isn't useful critique. It gets old. The point isn't to show off how good my pushing is. If I wanted to do that I'd cherry pick the sweet stuff and show you a highlight reel of tomato cans.

I understand that's hard for a lot of people to process, because they have different motivation and value systems than I do, and that's fine.

My clips demonstrate the things I talk about. People don't always see or understand how they line up.

Onassis is a legit tai chi player with good skill. I'm glad he's sharing what he has to offer and I think other people should likewise be encouraged.

But then there's people that aren't sharing anything, and just want to discourage anyone from putting up their own work.

They just enjoy shitting all over everyone else's effort.

My people have a saying, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

The site has a search. Some folks around here seem to have taken the exact opposite approach, and will only chime in to be negative.

That's what bothers me, honestly. Not for my own sake, but for the sake of people in my videos that are being trashed, and for the sake of other people that might be discouraged from documenting or sharing by the troll under the bridge of assholes.

People won't stop lamenting the surrender of the art to the YMCAs and Senior Centers, yet in the same breath do their damndest to keep the martial studies fandom as toxic as The Adult Bluey group on facebook. (Just.... don't go there... it's worse than Mos Eisley.)

I'll go ahead and throw down the gauntlet on all y'all, and I hate to hijack the thread like this, but damn, ONCE AGAIN somebody has taken what could be a perfectly productive thread and turned it into a fucking reality show drama fest, so what's lost at this point?

I dare you to go a full day, participating fully with life and the internet as usual, 24 consecutive hours on normal schedule, like say... noon to noon....

Go ONE WHOLE DAY without complaining or criticizing or making a negative observation.

Including sleep time, but I won't count it if you are making lists of bothersome things in your dreams. Just keep them to yourself till noon.

Drop me a message when you start and a message when you end and a message every time you screw up and have to start over.

I honestly don't think some of y'all could manage it within a fortnight of trying.

Prove me wrong.

As far as Chat GPT, it is useful to help identify characters, but my writing is my writing. I can't help it y'all read at a 5th grade level and can't tell the difference.

[wayne hansen]

I comment on what is presented
There are others here who watch but never comment
So any clip here might be someone in the background or their friend or teacher
No clip should be exempt from debate
Isn’t that why it’s here
The only duty is to the art
I am not rude to others and do not display bad manners as stated above
If fact someone who wrote to me on the back channel asked how I remained so polite
The reason some people don’t ask their teachers is because they may not have spent any real face to face time with them
First step ask your teacher for sure
I found I never had to ask my teacher because he would address whatever I was thinking before I could mention it

[origami_itto]

You're amazing, sir.

Honestly, I don't think you're competent to discuss the matter.

[BruceP]

One might ask why, why do others post clips of fails, while never exposing their own work

Might be a case of crabs in a bucket...maybe

Anyway,...about the push hands BS and training tai chi method...

Push-hands proper is really limited within the scope of what is being developed and tested. But it starts with the very basic of basics before it can be anything having to do with tactics and clever hand/arm tricks.

How hard is it to stand up straight and suspend the head? Sink the elbows and press the knees up the sides of the torso? Never going to put the center into the body without training and testing those things first.

Why just start leaning as soon as the pressure enters the range of the forearms? How can there be a center when the interaction is put at arm's length? How about a little...you know...stillness first?

Gotta go out there and get your ass kicked many times before trying to win or even push someone else out. Doesn't matter what level of pressure one is engaging in developing and testing tjq, be it push-hands or full-contact sport where the other person is genuinely trying to wreck you- it boils down to EITHER, OR.
Abandon ship or go down with the ship. The former teaches nothing but validation of a misguided sense of progress, whereas the latter...well. Or,...just ignore that basic truth and continue arguing with people here who have been there and done that until you've cultivated a nice comfy sense of victimhood.

Really liked the blue t-shirt and sunglasses guy. Grey t-shirt guy showed some very good stuff as well. Matt wouldn't even need six months to be ring-ready if he trained in the right fighty school.