everything wrote:don't want to judge anyone too harshly. everyone is at his or her own level of understanding at that moment.
but they say yi->qi->jin, not yi->sinews->qi. it seems prudent to pay attention to what people like Sun said. when you start to scratch the surface, it starts to seem to make sense ...
origami_itto wrote:everything wrote:don't want to judge anyone too harshly. everyone is at his or her own level of understanding at that moment.
but they say yi->qi->jin, not yi->sinews->qi. it seems prudent to pay attention to what people like Sun said. when you start to scratch the surface, it starts to seem to make sense ...
So what do you think that means? Invisible force that moves matter outside your body? What do EACH of those terms mean? Can you produce any effect or phenomenon which matches this pattern?
How are you training this ability?
When you teach taiji, you always talk about taiji jin as the critical element in hand-pushing. What do you mean by taiji jin?
Though we say jin, internal force, it’s better to talk about a field. We can also say yinian li, the power of the mind, which means the power derived from the mind harmonizing with the body. This is also taiji jin.
Another way of talking about it is the body is soft and the thought is hard. Thought must be put outside the body. Then softness and hardness mutually correspond. This is taiji jin. Jin is not something you have after so many years of practice, like a commodity you can show. People talk about qi like this. That’s not it.
Putting the mind in the dantian is one means of cultivating this jin. With the mind in the dantian, the qi radiates outward, like waves on a pond. This produces power. If you catch a cold, you put your mind in the dantian and it gets real hot, and qi courses through the body. Soon the cold’s gone. This is really beautiful. Most people have heard of the principle yishou dantian, put your mind in your dantian. Few have heard of qisan dantian, radiate qi from the dantian.
So only through qisan dantian can the qi move throughout the body and the lesser and greater heavenly circulations be accomplished.
origami_itto wrote:Oh well that clears it up then doesn't it.
勁 (Jin) Refined force. Normally, any force gained by active training, e.g. even boxing may consider as Jin. However, internal Jin are trained differently and do not involve the active engaging of muscles. In the highest form in internal arts, Jin is developed through the movement of Yi and Qi.
windwalker wrote:Is it useful, only in so much as its a label when talking about different types of force...
In the first part of this article, published in the Summer 2010 edition, I discussed the first of the five most important taijiquan skills for beginners, fang song. In this article I discuss what I consider to be the second and third most important skills for beginners, peng jin and ding jin.
(From the first article -
When asked what I consider the five most important skills for a beginner student in taijiquan, I listed them as:
1. Fang Song – Loosen the body by relaxing the joints
2. Peng Jin – an outward supportive strength, the basic skill of taiji
3. Ding Jin – upright and straight
4. Chen - rooted
5. Chan Si Jin – Reeling Silk Skill)
It is worth repeating that these are difficult ideas to formulate in words. They are difficult to gain an understanding of. It is difficult to grasp the skill of them. They must be shown. The student must be led to them. They are not skills that lead themselves to be grasped intuitively. This is why most people do not get a good basic grounding in them. Many teachers do not have these skill, so naturally it is not possible for their students to gain them. Even today, after more than 20 years of high level taijiquan practitioners being available as visiting teachers, still the level of these skills is not as high as it might be given the dedication, perseverance and effort of many players here in the UK.
2. Peng Jin - – an outward supportive strength: the basic skill of taijiquan
Peng Jin (sometimes simply Peng) is the core skill of taijiquan. All other taijiquan skills are based around the skill. It comes from loosening the body (fang song) and stretching. In essence, ‘stretching but not straightening’ the joints. Peng is not a natural or instinctive skill. It comes from a long period of correct practice. Without a good understanding of peng and then considerable training to transform this understanding into this skill in every part of the body, it will not arise. Peng will not be gained by accident. It is systematically trained into the body over time.
When I was exploring writing this piece I considered making peng jin the first most important skill of taijiquan. However, while peng should be considered the most important skill, it is dependent on loosening the body (fang song.) It is an effective argument that Taijiquan is peng jin chuan because without peng there is no taijiquan. It is taijiquan’s essential skill. Peng is always used when moving, neutralizing, striking, coiling etc,. Through peng all other taijiquan skills are utilized.
心與意合,氣與力合,筋與骨合,內三合也。
xin (heart/mind) harmonizes with yi (intention), qi harmonizes with li (power/strength), and jin (muscle/tendon) harmonizes with gu (bone), these are the three internal harmonies.
Bob wrote:Structure and alignment seem to be key regardless of the belief in Qi - refined bajiquan reflects these things too. When the warlord Zhang Xiang Wu told the young 20 something Liu Yun Qiao to learn his Yang style taiji and to read all of the classics associated with taijiquan the young Liu with the youth arrogance of being indestructible asked, "why?" The warlord's response, "It will make your bajiquan much better!"
I noted that the clips are labeled as exercises - I am not a fan of "Wudang" just as I feel the same about "Shaolin" but I would hope one shouldn't judge any of this harshly - there might be a few things worth thinking about in his clips - don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
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