Mobilize Qi, Pull Silk — Adam Mizner

[wayne hansen]

No nothing like that
Years ago I did a lot of chi flowing and chi dredging as part of Taoist meditation
Where the mind flows the chi follows
All that is needed is correct form and relaxation
Along with that each time your teacher touches you a little chi passes on
I do nothing special I was just pointing out that my understanding differed from what was being spoken about

[windwalker]

Itto- doesn't believe, in qi do you ?

I never said I didn't believe in Qi. I'm asking you to describe it or its function in a manner that would allow me to decide if I "believe" in it, or if it even needs "belief".

It's not a belief, 氣 "Hànzì" (Qi) written in English for outsiders of the culture its used in, to describe a function that said abilities are based on validated through empirical evidence

Belief is pointless, it either is or isn't. If isn't belief won't make it is, and if it isn't non-belief won't make it isn't.

It's not a belief

Tell me what it is, what it does, how you do it, what it feels like, then I can say whether I believe or not.

It's not a belief

Qi, sure, it exists, but how does it make him go back.
What is the mechanism that generates that force? yes there is force, there is a change in momentum. what causes it,
in your opinion. Adam says that the jin does it. Do you agree or is it qi?

Qi

Start by understanding 勁 (Jin) as used by Adam in this context

The difference between it and "force"

Get shocked by electricity, feel the reaction in your body and ask why ?

Get hit by a baseball bat, feel the reaction on your body and ask why ?

in each there is a reaction due to what is interacted with...

In the case of the demos, what is inteacted with is said to be Qi

[origami_itto]

Itto- doesn't believe, in qi do you ?

I never said I didn't believe in Qi. I'm asking you to describe it or its function in a manner that would allow me to decide if I "believe" in it, or if it even needs "belief".

It's not a belief, 氣 "Hànzì" (Qi) written in English for outsiders of the culture its used in, to describe a function that said abilities are based on validated through empirical evidence

Belief is pointless, it either is or isn't. If isn't belief won't make it is, and if it isn't non-belief won't make it isn't.

It's not a belief

Tell me what it is, what it does, how you do it, what it feels like, then I can say whether I believe or not.

It's not a belief

Qi, sure, it exists, but how does it make him go back.
What is the mechanism that generates that force? yes there is force, there is a change in momentum. what causes it,
in your opinion. Adam says that the jin does it. Do you agree or is it qi?

Qi

Start by understanding 勁 (Jin) as used by Adam in this context

The difference between it and "force"

Get shocked by electricity, feel the reaction in your body and ask why ?

Get hit by a baseball bat, feel the reaction on your body and ask why ?

in each there is a reaction due to what is interacted with...

In the case of the demos, what is inteacted with is said to be Qi

Please, help me understand. Is it like a bat or a battery?

[Doc Stier]

Again, not to defend him, but to defend him a much as to be fair, I haven't seen film of you, windwalker, Apple or peace dog, quigga, Doc, uh... anybody on this board.

Maybe I missed it?

Yeah, you apparently also missed the fact I didn't criticize Adam's demo videos in any way, and that I don't sell an online course, books, etc, or solicit attendance at seminars and workshops.

As such, I have no reason to produce videos. I am a professional teacher and am, therefore, not interested in providing free video instruction for mass public consumption, but only interested in sharing what I have learned during the past 62 years with those who choose to meet with me live and in person, as quality control is an important part of maintaining the integrity of curriculum content in the Shen Men Tao System I have been entrusted with. This is a simple, yet effective, agenda priority.

I hope you didn't take my statement as criticism. More just arguing AGAINST that criticism, and your answer explains perfectly why such videos are unlikely to be a free web search away.

Actually, I did read your statement as criticism, because you essentially said that anyone who hasn't posted YouTube videos of themselves shouldn't criticize those who do, in this case namely Adam Mizner, because if they had anything of real value to share, they would do so via videos of their own.

Assumption is a thinking error.

However, thank you for the subsequent clarification. It's all good!

[Quigga]

I worry if all those displays of Jin are just another way of being attached to seeking power over others.

What if you come across someone who's just so song that all your attempts to control their energy just go right through them in an instant, without causing any major physical effect?

A gun and 10 meters give you all the power over another person you could need.

[wayne hansen]

I thought that about the charlatans who taught death touch seminars
What would be your defence if someone died while you were demonstrating death touch on them
Back in the 70’s I knew two people who died after full contact tournaments

[everything]

What if you come across someone who's just so song that all your attempts to control their energy just go right through them in an instant, without causing any major physical effect?

Doesn't this just mean they are "more song" and if they have skill they can have better "taijiquan" than you?

[Quigga]

Wayne - they knew what they were signing up for, or not? Having one's naivety removed always hurts a bunch. Guess you'd need people to sign waivers saying 'I'm fully aware that participating in Death Touch activities may result in death.'

Everything - sure it can mean that.

[origami_itto]

I worry if all those displays of Jin are just another way of being attached to seeking power over others.

It's a martial art... Controlling your opponent is a pretty big part of the point of all that time wasted. If you just want to meditate you shouldn't waste your time with martial arts. You can get much more bang for your buck with focused meditation.

What if you come across someone who's just so song that all your attempts to control their energy just go right through them in an instant, without causing any major physical effect?

Then you squish them like a bug.

A gun and 10 meters give you all the power over another person you could need.

You got a lot to learn about power.

[wayne hansen]

Quigga u know you can’t sign your rights away under the law
A waiver isn’t worth the paper it’s written on

[Quigga]

Wayne- yeah, I knew that wouldn't work. More like a fun take on it. If someone died while demonstrating or teaching it, I would have to take the whole burden of it (moral, emotional, legal) on myself. Aside from being a shitty teacher.

In full contact competitions, is the killer persecuted as a murderer under the law? I don't think so, yet me saying that doesn't mean much.

Oragami- The point of IMA is to combine focused meditation with martial arts. As far as I understand, you don't think this type of Jin demonstration (as in the OP video) is possible anyway?

Re the bug squishing - we wouldn't be alive without bugs. Why have to squish them? You could just let them tire themselves out against you, like playing with a toddler.

The chances of encountering roving gangs of IMA masters wanting to control you with their Jin (jinning on you, lol!) is pretty much zero.

As for learning about power - one point is other people only have the power over you you give to them. That depends on how good the other person is in taking and subverting your power.

Or is 10m not enough? 15-20m, is that better? Didn't think of cover? Or some people power through bullet wounds to overcome you, likely succumbing to their wounds later?

Or that a direct power confrontation is evidence of things going wrong somewhere else?

Any cool stories you got to share? Enlighten me, powerful one!

[Quigga]

Why am I so good at derailing threads. Sorry!

[Quigga]

Of course, indirectly controlling people via damnable evidence, be it true or fabrication, is much more comfortable.

[everything]

The chances of encountering roving gangs of IMA masters wanting to control you with their Jin (jinning on you, lol!) is pretty much zero.

[origami_itto]

Oragami- The point of IMA is to combine focused meditation with martial arts. As far as I understand, you don't think this type of Jin demonstration (as in the OP video) is possible anyway?

I don't believe I have the authority to speak regarding the point of IMA.
At least one aspect of anything branding itself a martial art should be prevailing in conflict.
The near enemy is the most powerful, and conquering the bandits in our own minds that steal potential is the most difficult.
By which I mean the point of my own study is self control first, through which I can control an opponent.

Any cool stories you got to share? Enlighten me, powerful one!

I'm much more familiar with being the target of power. Get divorced or go to jail and you'll learn much more than I could teach you.