Pi to the head

[Ian]

Dude its just a rule about building internal force in your solo practice.
Do this: Do pi at chest height, then do pi at face height. Feel how your shoulder breaks the force.

I don't feel any break.

I mean if you don't practice hitting above shoulder height, you won't be as good at hitting above shoulder height.

Usually pi is done downward to the sternum or heart, but you can also do it to the face.

I'm just confused as to why you view piquan to the head as something you can "also do" instead of the bread and butter of fighting.

So many of the good spots are above shoulder height. Temple, nose, jaw, ears, eyes, back of the neck, side of the neck... all take A LOT less power to do damage than targeting the sternum (or heart), making the latter targets kinda sucky in comparison.

[DeusTrismegistus]

I think part of it is that you learn things the easy way so you get the correct feeling, so when you do it the hard way you will know if you are doing it right or not.

In taiji the general rule is to not raise the elbow above the shoulder. As far as I know this is because when you do it make it much easier to unintentionally tense the shoulders and raise them too much. Once you are good at keeping your shoulders down and relaxed you can raise your elbow up higher without issues.

My teacher told me to practice the xingjing form with my strikes all lower. Probably for a similar reason. Its not a permanent thing just a stage of development IMO.

[DeusTrismegistus]

Oh and about the video, I thought Pi was splitting? I saw the strikes penetrating plenty but was it a splitting jing?

[GrahamB]

Oh and about the video, I thought Pi was splitting? I saw the strikes penetrating plenty but was it a splitting jing?

'Splitting' in XingYi is a strike, like an axe chopping a tree - not splitting like you have 'splitting' in Tai Chi, which is more like taking two things in opposite directions, as in 'split apart'.

[Josealb]

Why get in a fuss about directions? Its the same with zuanquan. Its trained from down to up but you can certainly nail that baby downwards if you maintain the correct spiral and body mechanics.

I think what James means is that to nail the correct body mechanics, a single main way of doing things has been agreed upon over the years to be able to "get it". Better questions would be why and based on what was this way agreed on....but its a bit off the topic.

[Overlord]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BSzLzSdi0mo



PS. I think this vid also points out that you don't want to mess with crazy Mancunians! Liam Gallagher eat your heart out

Man, i will imagine they learn how to dodge slaps from their wife/girlfriend already.
If they want to test the force, just get a punching bag with a person lean forward from behind.

[GrahamB]

Why get in a fuss about directions? Its the same with zuanquan. Its trained from down to up but you can certainly nail that baby downwards if you maintain the correct spiral and body mechanics.

yep - definitely

I think what James means is that to nail the correct body mechanics, a single main way of doing things has been agreed upon over the years to be able to "get it". Better questions would be why and based on what was this way agreed on....but its a bit off the topic.

I'm sure he can speak for himself, but I don't think there is such a thing as a 'single main way of doing things' in Xingyi - all there are are different lineages who all do things differently - basically the same in a general sense, but all the details differ.

e.g.

Song XingYi - Pi quan looks face height to me:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xgdDPr1gj ... re=related

[Overlord]

For the xing yi lover out there, just one small question; why do we leave the space between thumb and index finger open when doing pi, as seen in san ti shi?

[mixjourneyman]

Why get in a fuss about directions? Its the same with zuanquan. Its trained from down to up but you can certainly nail that baby downwards if you maintain the correct spiral and body mechanics.

I think what James means is that to nail the correct body mechanics, a single main way of doing things has been agreed upon over the years to be able to "get it". Better questions would be why and based on what was this way agreed on....but its a bit off the topic.

ding ding ding! Jose has nailed the correct!

If your going to do pi to the face, why not use it as an upward chopping strike? It is much more powerful and much faster, besides if you miss you can angle it back down to cut through (my favourite use of pi actually).
All I'm saying is that solo form training is not the same as application, surely as an internal martial artist you must have learned that by now

[yusuf]

pi chuan is everything that in a pure up down ..

the rest is all bollox warming

[Josealb]

Graham, there IS such a thing as a single main way of doing things. Do this if you have the time..

Gather 10 different clips and 10 different pictures of Piquan around the net, from different regions, lineages, whatever. You got 20 examples...see how many have the base of the striking palm over the practitioners shoulder level or below the clavicle/upper chest. And try to get good examples? not Mr. X who nobody knows about.

Ps.
I cant see that song clip, but if its the old Zhao yong chang's nephew clip, the intent is clearly in the elbows and shoulders, not where the hand lands.

[Josealb]

And, just in case you get possessed by the semantical devil and try to be picky in my choice of words....i do mean single main way of TRAINING, not application.

[GrahamB]

pi chuan is everything that in a pure up down ..

the rest is all bollox warming

Yusuf with the correct!

There's nothing more to be said, Jose - go look up your own clips, I've got stuff to do. Yusuf said it best - he's right - everything else is just window dressing. You like your window dressed one way, fine, just don't make everyone else dress it the same way too. It's just all bollox.

So, so, much bollox. In fact, I feel sick.

Why do XingYi guys have to be such dicks all the time?

[middleway]

If your going to do pi to the face, why not use it as an upward chopping strike? It is much more powerful and much faster, besides if you miss you can angle it back down to cut through (my favourite use of pi actually).

I learnt a method with Pi where you essentially rain down pichuans very rapidly onto the guard, arms and head of the opponent. This creates an immediate defensive reaction in the opponent and is basically ....scary to be on the receiving end of ... it is about dominating the intent of the attacker

It draws the guard high so that the lower gates open up etc ... but when combined with crossing after a few Pi's, crossing after a few ... really shakes the attacker (who is now the defender) around ....

here is Su dongchen doing something similar.


When there is real intent and forward motion there its shit scary to be underneath and their aint too many responses that stop the onslaught ..... i have tried lots of things ... Pao, lots of movement, ba gua stepping etc ... not alot helps cause the frequency of their hits is so high and they are really heavy hard hits...

cheers
Chris

[Josealb]

Hehe...nice escape...

BUT..if you say yusuf is correct and that pi is pure up down....then this same reasoning would imply that Zuan is pure down up....and you agreed with me when i said it wasn't. Theres a contradiction there buddy, you're slipping.