THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby Strange on Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:04 pm

john, "the guy" just happens to be yours truly, what a coincidence... now you that you know what a handsome little devil i am...

i know what you are getting at... wait till you get a load of the zhuan in 灵猿摘果 (Agile Ape Picks Fruit) or 里猫扑蝶 (Civet Cat Lunge At Butterfly)...; then you and rd will be all over me heh.

allow me to refer you to the 5CS:- ...两手轻轻起 曲伸无断续 转移有曲折 形似游龙析*...
2 arms raise up lightly
bending or extending have no breaks nor continuation
in turning and shifting there are curves and kinks
looking like a swimming dragon frolic (last character is wrong- somehow i just cannot find in my computer)

while there may be some spiral motion in the movements, i believe that the 5CS takes a more macro view at the overall quality of the practitioner doing the form, and does not concentrate so much on the smaller arm movements (though surely detailed for begin learners).

perhaps, Li Dong Feng knows whats gonna happen when we get too deep into this type of discussion: the intention and shen automatically take a back seat; and these are the stuff that ima are suppose to be concentrating on in the first place.

rd
there's still quite a bit more to go before the 2nd part, that begins with wind swaying lotus

just what i think, thanks:)
S.
Last edited by Strange on Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby jjy5016 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:55 pm

Drake wrote:John,

The "spiraling" that you're referring to exists all throughout the long form even though it's not mentioned in the 5 C.S. It would have to be in there for any natural movements to occur. Don't you think?


Yes of course. Strange just threw me with the comment about spiralling. As for natural I don't necessarily agree with that. Perhaps after doing the movments thousands of times it can become natural as in automatic.

I learned the first half of the long form more than 10 years ago. Forgot the names of the techniques though. I gave it up to just work on the twelve animals. Lots of good spiralling in those.

I only have the English translation of the Five Character Secrets by Paul Dillon and while he's very dedicated to the system I don't know how accurate his translation is. From what I've read though it's about the same as yiquan.


John
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I'm always careful to lift the seat when IP
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby Strange on Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:00 am

... i keep coming back to see the vid...
listening to master kam cantonese i remember my teacher saying that when Master Chen YiRen came to singapore to teach;
he no longer was able to speak his home dialect but only in cantonese... so it must be something like the vid for my teacher when he was a student... and now i am his student... so i posted an entry in my blog titled The Way of LiuHeBaFa to remember what he said to me...

"你师公来到新加坡时都已经不会讲他家乡话了...
your shi-gong when came to singapore already cannot speak his home dialect...

年轻时跟人比武,放劲一推, 那人急步后退,后脑撞到大树,昏迷不省...
when young compare skill with others, one push with jin, that fella high speed back step, rear skull hit against a big tree, and fell into coma

你师公就逃到香港教拳... 来到这里时只会讲广东话
your shi-gong escape to hong kong to teach fist...when came here only can speak cantonese

嘿, 我当时那里懂的什么内家拳、六合八法...
heh, at the time what do i know about internal arts or liuhebafa...

就交学费练拳...师父看久了就说 : "子云, 你等站留底...", 叫我下课后留下
just pay fees and learn fist thats all... shifu after observing some time say : "ZiWan, you later stay behind...", tell me to stay after class

然后来...
after some time...

再叫我没上课那些天也来...
tell me to come in those days with no class also...

你韩师兄, 跟过我去过香港见过他老人家....
your senior Han, went with me to hong kong to visit him before...

过没几年, 过马路时,耳朵听不见,被车撞死......"
after some years, when crossing the road, hearing not good, ran over by car...."
Last edited by Strange on Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby qiphlow on Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:04 am

jjy5016 wrote:




I only have the English translation of the Five Character Secrets by Paul Dillon and while he's very dedicated to the system I don't know how accurate his translation is. From what I've read though it's about the same as yiquan.


John


i have that book. i also notice alot of similarities to yiquan (and taiji for that matter).
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby Drake on Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:20 pm

Hi John, :)

[quote="jjy5016"
Yes of course. Strange just threw me with the comment about spiraling. As for natural I don't necessarily agree with that. Perhaps after doing the movements thousands of times it can become natural as in automatic. [quote="jjy5016"

I'm talking about any natural movement, John. From walking, running, getting in a car, opening a door, etc... "Spiraling" is as natural as can be. Don't you think?

[quote="jjy5016"I learned the first half of the long form more than 10 years ago. Forgot the names of the techniques though. I gave it up to just work on the twelve animals. Lots of good spiraling in those.[quote="jjy5016"

The 12 Animals/San Pan Sher Shi is definitely foundation work. Too bad it's been severely overlooked by a vast majority of LHBF practitioners. *All* of the foundation work is severely overlooked. Did you learn from Wai Lun Choi?

[quote="jjy5016"I only have the English translation of the Five Character Secrets by Paul Dillon and while he's very dedicated to the system I don't know how accurate his translation is. From what I've read though it's about the same as yiquan.[/quote]

I've never read it. Really have no desire, or time. All I have time to do is train what I've been taught, and that's too little time these days. :(
Best,

Drake
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby jjy5016 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:25 am

Hello Drake. I agree that spiraling can be natural. But coordinated, connected spiraling for use in quan, well maybe when we are babies. Once we get to a certain age natrual tendencies seem to give way to bad habits that we have to un-learn when we get old.

I didn't learn the 12 animal forms from Choi. My first yiquan teacher studied with Zhang Chang Xin and the current one learned from Leung Zhi Peng who were both students of Wu Yi Hui.
"I kew evibady. I squeegee him - like dis. STAND me?"
I'm always careful to lift the seat when IP
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby TaoJoannes on Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:37 pm

I think we're mistaking natural as in "instinctive movement" with natural as in "movement in harmony with the laws of nature"
oh qué una tela enredada que tejemos cuando primero practicamos para engañar
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby Drake on Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:44 am

TaoJoannes wrote:I think we're mistaking natural as in "instinctive movement" with natural as in "movement in harmony with the laws of nature"



No, TJ, John and I understand where the other is coming from. It's exactly as he said in his last post, and I agree with him, *and* you. ;) This is just a conversation. We're just looking at things a bit differently, and discussing certain points. I'm just playing the part of "devil's advocate" here. It makes for some interesting discourse to do this, no?
Last edited by Drake on Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby Overlord on Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:22 am

Our forefathers accomplished many, now we bullshit to accomplishment, our children sadly, barely know to accomplish bullshit. :)
-Taiwan's Strawberries Dairy

phi
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby Strange on Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:25 pm

overlord,
pardon me, but i dont believe we have been introduced.
would u care to pls?
my lhbf teacher is master lu ziyun (singapore), who is a student of master chen yiren.

its an interesting quote you got there.
but i am not sure as to its meaning of posting on this thread and i hate guessing.
yeah the forefather part i understand....

"now we bullshit to accomplishment"
now who is "we" are you saying? and what type of accomplishment are we talking about exactly??
which part of the thread/post do you think its bullshit?
who in your opinion is bullshitting?
or, do you think that LHBF is bullshit?

"our children sadly, barely know to accomplish bullshit"
i am not married, i do not have any children as yet
so whose children are you talking about?

pray enlighten us
S.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby Overlord on Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:29 pm

Hi Strange

My apology. Your clip is one of the best LHBF I seen. The intention Yi is there. And your explanation of 5wd are very practical and detail. I enjoy them. Thank you for generously sharing them.

I have the fullest respect for Master Lu. I believe he is one of the authentic LHBF lineage holder.
The alternative way to say this passage is: Qian ren gong fu hao, jin ren li lun duo
Don't you agree? :) Certainly this passage does not point toward you. It refer to some of us or most of us, including me.

Yours Truely

phi
ps: Unfortunately, I do not have children yet and gain much of enlightenment. But i am working on it. ai ya......
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby Strange on Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:51 pm

"Qian ren gong fu hao, jin ren li lun duo"

yes, sir, its true.
my teacher also say this
in ma, practice is the most "precious"
cheers, S.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: THE LiuHeBaFa "Finger"

Postby chicagoTaiJi on Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:42 am

I thought it was...

前人功夫好
今人理論高

not

今人理論多
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