Baji on ESPN

[bailewen]

Hi Bob,

Nice to see you still out there keeping the faith so to speak. I've mostly dropped off the boards but this last comment of yours brought a little smile to my face.

... They can focus now instead of constantly testing themselves as to whether the baji they are learning can be used in a fight or the ring.....

My perspective got a bit warped living in the bubble that is China and especially the isolation of training pretty much only solo or with Shifu directly. All the online hype got me actualy a little nervous about the seemingly ubiquitous MMA master. After being back in the city and mixing it up with the occasional MMA type and, more importantly, reconnecting with so many of the Bay Area badasses my perspective got a but healthier. I met MMA guys who I could toy with. I've met good ones too. Mainly I just was reminded that there's no magic and regardless of what the numbers are at large, just the magic label of MMA doesn't make the person any more skilled than the amount of work they put it. I also discovered I have friends who do professional bodyguard work, one guy who has made people spit blood from his kicks and hung out and trained with some amazing escrimadors and am friends with most of the top Wing Chun guys in SF. Got friends who have been in more street fights than they can count against armed groups of attackers. One thing all of these guys have in common is that they couldn't give a rats ass about the MMA craze, have never been taken down and all treat me as a peer even though I do not have their fighting credentials.

The question of usefullness just isn't an issue and none of the them doubt my abilities. They have helped me get refocused on "pure" training.

I am pretty convinced that fighting, beyond basic condiitioning, is 90% heart and 10% system and most people are not sociopathic enough to make really great fighters--the kind that go for the kill. Those are the ones to fear most in a bar or on the street---the sociopathic fighter.

That's me for sure. Just too nice to be a "real" fighter. Nobody cares. It seems I am slowly developing into a great teacher. One of my students has used the stuff I taught him to throw trained martial artists 50lbs bigger than him. I also got into a violent altercation a couple months back and I could bring myself to elbow him in the face even through I had it all lined up and the shot was open for a "mountain stabbing elbow" (second move of xiaobaji). In the end a man several inches taller than me an about 30 - 40 lbs bigger rained down blows for 30 seconds or so, went for a neck clinch and attemped some knees. Nothing landed. I blocked everything and fought my way out or a small room to safety. I was a little rattled but basically unscathed. Even now, a couple months later, I keep reviewing that confrontation and asking myself why I didn't punch him. I just blocked. He tried to wrestle me to the ground too. I fell to one knee at one point and that was about it. I think that's all I really need from my MA anyways. The "killers" I know are always moaning about how bad they feel about it. I have a karate master friend who comes to work with his hand all swollen sometimes talking about how he wishes he had been more "compassoinate" last night. When he hears I demoed a beng quan on one of my students (lightly) he got briefly really angry with me about it. Another of those "killers" is now a bodyworker. He's completely abandoned fighting and even trains his own kids for performance more than for fighting.

So if these guys don't care about all the hype, why should I?

Oh and very nice clip by the way.

Omar

[Bob]

Thanks for posting that Kreese--it is a very interesting contrast. In the one you posted that was around 1980 or 1981 and the ESPN was in the late 1990s, I think. approximately a 15 to 20 year difference. If anything, according to Tony, as baji matures it should go from being "crispy" to a much more smoother expression. I think baji training complements Chen training to a point but I am being very careful here not to imply that it substitutes for Chen jiben gong training.

Later.

[Bob]

Hey Omar, nice to hear from you too. I hope your upcoming marriage is on schedule and I sure would like to have been a fly on the wall when you were learning your Yang style training---not many students were interested in Liu's Yang's taijiquan and he made everything more simple in order for people to pick it up---

Maybe you can make it over to Las Vegas for the tournament on Labor Day weekend---My traveling days are over, except for family in Beijing, and I consider myself semi-retired---we are still trying to get baji to the forefront and I hope to have some additional articles out this upcoming year.

I have done some TCM and really slow up training with emphasis on breathing along with diet emphasizing more vegetables and green plants---compared my blood profile from 4 years back to now and substantial difference although the initial blood profile wasn't bad at all [of course my allopathic physician doesn't know much about what I do with TCM] but there is an interesting difference here. So I am convinced, in the long run, that these arts are very helpful. Still following the advice from my teacher about training bagua in the morning.

I sincerely hope you are doing well in school and wish you the very best---the baji bomber who lived my dream while in China! LOL

[bailewen]

I'll see what my finances are like. I'm reluctant to spend the money on a trip to Vegas as that might further delay my return to China. I have a lead on an actual professional job in Beijing though. Looks like maybe a tech job for a big international that needs bilingual tech support on the ground in Beijing. It'll be a bummer not being in Xi'an but with that kind of money I could either fly to Xi'an regularly or even fly Shifu to Beijing for a week at a time. All things are possible.

I really made some significant progress with the Taiji this year training solo. Teaching helped a lot. I couldn't believe some of the applications I came up with when asked. Stuff has been starting to just pop out of the unconcious. It's really amazing how Shifu planted the seeds for solo development. I have to give a lot of credit to John Wang as well. His posts here made me realize the truly critical importance of single leg balance and it radically changed how I train the form. That and a "kicking master" I met and sparred with a bit. Now I never do any stretches on the ground anymore. I do it all on one foot. Grab the other foot and pull it up. Fold it in half lotus style, hold the outer edge and hold it out sidekick style and my favorite of all, stretching inside of a door frame. I somehow managed to manifest most of the qin na stuff that used to blow my mind. It revolutionized my push hands as I can now absolutely welcome a good rooted push directly at my dan tian. It doesn't matter. I've figured out how to "fold" the incoming limb into my root and lock the wrist and elbow. I've even learned to take advantage of an opponents attempts at elbow control. It really highlights how important it is not to get too grabby.

If we get lucky and meet in Vegas then I'll show you what I mean. Otherwise, I wish you well. At the moment I am working at the Bohemian Grove to save money for China. I could talk about that too but not in public. I'd probably get fired and then put on a CIA watch list for good measure. lol.

Have fun in Canton.

Omar

[kreese]

I have in no way given the opinion that MMA is king. Never. That's somebody else's baggage. What I respect is that they are honest enough to test themselves and they don't make so many excuses.

Everyone doesn't have to be a fighter, but without the ability to reference them as friends, training partners, or peers, what do we rest our credibility on? People know that there is no guarantee in a fight, and at the end of the day--at least for me--you gotta respect skills for what they represent regardless of where they come from. Hard work. Honesty. Insight. Anyone can offer these. It doesn't matter what's on the t-shirt.

I only ask how the bajiquan is marketed because it seems like people are not searching it out. Fine, right? Traditional doesn't bend to nobody. And then we sometimes lament that so few people understand it and are training it correctly or at all.

I post out of love for the arts. I am not trying to troll or disrespect anyone. I post assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that people know where I am coming from, and, despite my crankiness, I try my best not to disrespect anyone. I try. Believe it or not I am more concerned with spiritual development and I'd rather share a bottle of wine with someone than a fistful of conflict. But when it comes to fighting and MA, I don't think I am doing anything more than preparing myself to fight to the best of my ability.

[Bob]

Oh jeez Kreese my apologies for sounding as though I am critical of you---no, no, no! I'd be pouring ya a beer if you were here. Never a troll of any sorts!

Baji is its worst own enemy---kept secret even among its practitioners, made into a video game, it takes on gigantic problems. From 1980 to about 1997 or so, my teacher would not even discuss baji beyond a few disciples, and I was not one of them. Its only now that there is the realization that it is beginning to die. A lot of the baji practitioners sort look down on a lot of other practitioner's systems thinking only they have got it---but the truth is that there are a lot of great systems out there and baji people need to expand theirs minds. Love their own system but show respect and appreciation for others.

A lot of people in the baji circles forget that Liu Yun Qiao was knocked on his can 3 times by the Liuhe praying mantis master who was in his 40s at that time. Liu was in his very early 20s and at a peak in terms of martial arts prowess. As Liu once said, that there are always higher mountains to climb in the martial arts.

Kreese, when you find yourself in my part of the country [you are in Illinois, right?] we need a good dinner together.

BTW, Omar, I am not going to be in Las Vegas---that is my semi-retirement---I've done enough of this for a long time and I want to train quietly and enjoy a whole lot of other things in life. Vegas is not my idea of a great place to visit---I don't gamble! LOL

Oh yeah, my wife and I are watching a 45 part series from CCTV about Shanxi business and the tragedies of love and war. Has piss poor English subtitles but I love it. Qiao Jia Da Yuan [Qiao Family Yard]

When we came back from China in January, we bought the series Chuang Quan Dong [Break into the East--immigrants from Shandong trying to settle in Dongbei area] and I had to watch 2 or 3 a nite until the 65 part series was over--had great stories and the scenary was just beautiful.

Take care and keep in touch.

[TaoJoannes]

I don't know Baji from a hole in the ground, but that is a damn impressive performance in my opinion.

Now compare that to a wushu form and the difference is clear.

[Bob]

Yes, I wrote that in an early piece in JAMA---that all traditional martial Northern [maybe southern too but I never trained any of the systems] have a beauty and grace that requires no changing but simply well developed practitioners.

In the article I compared contemporary wushu to watching a nascar race and compared watching baji or any traditional art when done well to watching a bulldozer at a construction site that is tearing down buildings and putting in a foundation. Each has their own flavor and I have come very much to appreciate the skills that go into contemporary wushu. My position is that they are both stand alone practices and there is no need for them to denigrate each other or even cross breed. Each has a place in the great hall! They are indeed different. LOL

[Craig]

I know squat about baji too but i always liked Lu Baochun:



those other clips are awesome too!

[Shenquan]

Lv Baochun is a real expert from the Han branch baji. From what I've heard he's very fighting-oriented and often teaches realistic and useful techniques based on the baji forms he has learned. Should I ever get the chance to meet him I'd definitely go

[Bob]

Yes, that is a favorit of mine. I also understand he teaches Chen taijiquan. That is an A+ in my book!

[kreese]

Ditto. That clip of Lu is a classic at this point. I'm glad the full version is up again.

Bob - I hope to be back in the states to visit sometime next year. A trip to Ohio would be well worth it. Thanks.

[Shenquan]

Yes, he does teach Taiji as well but Iguess his primary style must be baji

[Guo Bao-Lo]

Hi Bob,

Thank you for posting an excellent clip of Yang laoshi! I didn't realize he was also at that tournament. It is ad that for the last 5 years, there has not been any baji classes. Shoot...he can move to Norway and teach baji here

Thanks again for sharing!

---Paolo

[Bajitanglang]

Bob - what are are you guys doing to put your bajiquan out there for people to see? I don't see how a fight-oriented public these days would scoff at a live demo of Da Powah of Bajiquan. You will always have those who drop at at the first hint of hard work, but there are plenty of young people working very hard at their respective fight games. They just need to see the benefit of the traditional training or else it will just seem useless to them. The days of secrets are turning into the twilight of extinction for traditional CMA.

I would like to answer this if i may,
For five years now i have been specifically training fighters on behalf of GM Tony Yang out of Brunswick Ohio. Although as a disciple i only see him a few times a week he has kept a close handle on the curricullum for the fighters.
The primary system is baji that we use, all of our strikes are baji oriented. it is true that we use the mantis to open the door so to speak and to increase speed of striking and allow for the training of good combinations but that is where the mantis stops. All of the Fighters, police officers, bouncers, etc that i train have an extreme emphasis on the one punch for the first 3 months and gradually work that power into more complex baji movements until they can apply them to mantis boxing. We find that Mantis and baji contain more than enough Shuai Chiao and general on the feet grappling, for ground we use Shingitai Jujitsu and traditional Chinna.

As far as results well we have done very well against every team we have met. Including many golds to many different San Shou fighters. I have one that is 18 years old and has a seven and 2 record with three of the wins against Scott Sheely's team at the Wutang Tournaments05/06. Although i must admit Sheely did very well against us in 07 when my veteran team did not fight and i brought all noobs in 07 all less than six months training. Nevertheless they have had lots of time to learn since then and we look forward to another couple of championship belts.

We do have several that are strictly training baji/ praying mantis and Jujitsu for the future MMA arena. When they come out they will be easy to spot we are going to hide the Wutang identity.

Even though my school is only a lowley branch of the Akron school we take the applications and modern fighting potential of Baji Very seriously