Baji/pigua very basic

[Bob]

Here are a few of the very basic baji pigua jiben gong drill executed well by Liang Yi. The post training is distinctly different in flavor and execution than bagua post training.

The pigua exercises are but a small sample of where we start (as Tony Yang teaches it) long before we were ever taught a form. In fact these basic exercises were started within the first 6 months of classes with Tony Yang [in 1988]. The many of the baji post training drills can be done as two person drills and were also taught. Often we alternated individuals so you might be paired up with someone 5'7'', two hundred pounds and then someone 6'2" 180 lbs.

Some of the exercises are standing, some are moving---some require slapping the ground, others require pai da or body striking, some can employ the use of a dog skin [coyote]turned inside out wrapped around a log craddled in stand [X--X, log put in the middle and two skins wrapped around it].

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KK189UZX_U



These exercises are similar in methodology to the basic baji exercises employed long before the xiao baji form is taught. The xiao baji jia form is distinctly different from the jin gang ba shi form although my teacher knows 12 xiao baji jia forms [why one would know that many versions of a basic form is beyond what I understand. LOL] But the form below, I know it has been posted before but is now employed for illustrative purposes, is where everything begins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxysn35hMF4&feature=user



What you don't see in the video is the holding of each posture as you go through the form while holding each posture for a slow breath count of 3, 4 and eventually 8 breaths simulataneously thinking to 8 points, the head, shoulders, elbows, wrists, tailbone, hips, knees and feet. Usually the last execution of the form is done with fajing expression as shown in the film.

When one finally gets up to the point of being able to do the form in this manner, you do two sets of holding postures and one set of fajing expression, 3 times a day for 3 years along with da qiang training. During that time one might have a period of exclusive pigua training, say 6 months, then back to xiao baji basics. Ideally this is what is exclusively trained and I personally would think of this as a necessary but not sufficient condition to be truly a baji shen fa martial artist type. This phase, in my opinion, is only a conditioning and training phase with little regard for application and fighting.

None of this has even touched on the potential us of shuai jiao in the baji/pigua system and since striking is the heart of baji, combining with even minimal shuai jiao training would prove to be one of the most highly effective systems.

The question is whether to throw the baby out with the bathwater, i.e., is the baji/pigua system and all/or nothing proposition and the answer is NO! and one can clearly understand what SPJ was getting at in the other post.

What is described is the ideal path and what to me would be THE true baji practitioner.

Further elaboration of this type of training is found [da qiang and breath work is also found in the sources below]:

http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/bajipigua.htm

http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/fajing.html

Even getting a representative sample of this training, if done consistently and correctly structured, provides more than a great meal. LOL

[ashe]

looks tight, though i wonder if many long time pigua guys develop any GHIRD similar to baseball pitchers.

could you post any photos of the log/skin apparatus?

[Bob]

Ashe:

Not sure what GHRID is but what is very deceptive in the baji is that the upper body is held relatively relaxed as one would hold in taiji. Faji postures are held relaxed and body is only tightened and released upon impact or in the case of solo practice released as you relax the position. Pigua is extremely loose and relaxed. Often after practicing the da qiang my teacher advises that you do a couple of pigua expansive exercises to loosen the body.

No pictures of the apparatus but there is one in the basement of our school. Jim Finley built it and I provided the dog [coyote] skins. In all honesty we haven't spent much time training in it but there are pictures of Liu using a bag both vertically and horizontally.

[ashe]

GHIRD = gleno-humeral internal rotation deficit.

if you have one in the basement then snap some shots!

[Bob]

Sorry but you'll have to come and visit the school---not my basement, not my call. Its not hidden and so when people come and visit they wonder what it is.

First, I don't know of anyone currently training this way and so I know of anyone who was injured in the way you describe---my teacher did train at one point, very close to this method but you do pace yourself and being watched under Liu's eyes worked well. I don't recall him being injured in any way.

I have seen people throw their elbow out by trying to use too heavy of a da qiang. Needles and rest usually does the job.

I gotta run and give a final---last day of summer school! LOL

[JAB]

Ashe
It is nothing special. Just think tanned skin / fur on a little bench, skin side up.
Cheers
Jake

[Bob]

Yeah, there is nothing magical about the apparatus or coyote skin other than its softness and flexibility to fit the apparatus---usually two are used for the cushion--I could give you a qi interpretation but it all points to the same thing regarding padding, softness and flexibility.

Now the training is a bit different. Relaxed, whip-like, not karate type striking, loose kua, flexibility and give in the horse stance so full body weight drops---there you do need someone to guide you and you most likely would start doing the training and drills without any skin or object to strike---perhaps a year. The "secret" lies in having proper alignment and shen fa. There are some breathing like exercises employed but we teach those from the first day for all of our classes as warm-ups.

[dragontigerpalm]

That is a very good article on the rudimentary Baji training. Is there a similar article or photos/clips of the same for Piqua?

[sinkpoint]

be careful of the knees. Stumping like that on concrete is not gonna be good for it.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kScsmqrisSw&NR=1

For people that are interested.

1. 2 man practice in the beginning. they are kao practices with forearms, shoulder, back, chest, waist/hip etc.

2. toward the end, there are also kao zhuang (pole) practices. It looks like, the pole is covered with a piece of cloth.

3. hanging bags practice.

if a pole is not readily available, we may use a punching bag for some of the kao practices.

[I-mon]

outstanding. real chinese gongfu is always such a pleasure to see.

[Bob]

Thanks for finding that clip again, SPJ.

For those of you who may not know, this type of training is not unique to the baji/pigua system. I have, in my files, an old clip of George Xu in the 1970s, in a public demonstration in San Francisco, doing very similar Xin Yi Liu He two person sets.

[Muirarama]

Hey Ashe, I have done some of those pi gua drills and yes I hurt my shoulder - I self diagnosed as "rotator cuff", not sure if that's the injury you mean. But it was entirely my own fault for going too hard too soon - the kind of injury that afflicts wound up and overzealous practitioners of any style.

[Dillon]

I love the pounding drills. Last time we did those in class I had the flu, and as a result, had to spend the class just doing standing practice and watching everyone else get to pound. It made me sad.

I don't have any convenient posts, so I do most of the drills on a tree outside my house. It's a fair bit bigger than the post in the vid, but it works well enough.

[nianfong]

really nice stuff. thanks for posting bob!