Ba Ji stepping

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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby SPJ on Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:52 pm

1. Ding (pushing forward and upward)

2. Bao (enclose) 2 arms coming together.

3. Ti (rise) move up your feet, knee and fist

4. Dan or shan (single or fan)

5. Kua (hip)

6. Chan (entanglement) or silk reeling.

in general;

1. Ding, we may use fist, palm, elbow or shoulder, the force/power is going upward and forward.

2. Bao, we may swing one arm back, up and then down the front. or pi. that is from top downward.

3. Ti, from bottom upward, such as low kick, knee strike, wrist strike to the chin, groin hitting palm etc .

4. Shan, we swing the back fist from up downward.

5. Kua, use of hip, kao methods, and elbow pushing forward etc.

6. Chan, silk reeling, or rotation around the wrist, elbow and shoulder etc. circular movement.

:)
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby SPJ on Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:54 pm



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yokZp3XZ56g

you may also see all the 6 opening methods represented in this clip.

:)
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby SPJ on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:15 pm



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnzOCpac7tI

some practices from Tan Ji Tang.

6 big opening practices toward the end or the last 1/3 of the clup.

8-)
Last edited by SPJ on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby SPJ on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:24 pm



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL831v6FrzA

6 big opening practice sets from GM Liu.

8-)
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby SPJ on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:29 pm



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRDdUFOC9RA

6 big opening practice from Tan Ji Tang (chang chun ba ji).

1. elbow push (Ding Zhou)
2. enclose elbow (Bao Zhou)
3. Dan or shan
4. elevating the elbow (Ti Zhou)
5. hitting with the hip (Kua Da)
6. entanglement with both arms (Shuang Chan)
7. morning sun hand (Zhao Yang Shou)
8. bending arm (Zhe Jiang)

classics;

1. elbow push is to rush into the opponent's chest.

2. enclose elbow is to use followed step in a hurry.

3. Dan or shan, sorry too hard to translate

4. elevating the elbow to enter the centerline by force.

5. hitting with the hip requires the hip and the waist in unison/harmony.

6. entanglement with both arms is to turn and throw.

7. morning sun hand is to lift/support the elbow horizontally.

8. bending arm is to flip above the head.

----

:)
Last edited by SPJ on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby bailewen on Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:23 pm

cotton boxer wrote:thx. for posting this
i'll ask some questions . i have noticed that baji seems to be quite defined as to how they deliver power to the ground in there foot work. How does this play out in baji's use of fajin specifically as told to you by your sifu/master ?


Stomping sends a shock out through the hands. Gotta have excellent timing though. It only adds power if the hand and foot land exactly at the same time. Then add the heng-ha and you have breathing to coordinate. "ha" is the same as a good ki-ai. When evaluating a form performance you can check their whole body power by just listening. There is the stomping sound and the "ha!" If they are at all sequential then the power is not unified. Watching it you get 3 things to coordinate.

1. stomp
2. ha!
3. end of movement.

The better you can unify the timing on these three things, the better the power. Ning jiao or duo jiao, it doesn't matter. The mechanics are different but the purpose is the same. Some moves require ning, some require duo and still others require a third kind where you drive the rear leg backward, especially driving the rear heel deep into the ground as you do so.

Secondarily, the foot stomping expends tremendous energy and really does strengthen the legs in an unusual way. I personally feel that the sudden jolts and shocks that you get from them as you run through the form give the form a much closer kinesthetic feel to actual fighting than any other empty hand forms I have experienced so far. Sparring or fighting tends to involve a lot of bumping and jostling. You are also often thrown this way or that and need to slam your feet down to anchor yourself against someone who is muscling you around. The duo and ning jiao simulate much of this feeling very nicely.
Click here for my Baji Leitai clip.
www.xiangwuhui.com

p.s. the name is pronounced "buy le when"
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby Dillon on Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:17 pm

SPJ wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yokZp3XZ56g

you may also see all the 6 opening methods represented in this clip.

:)


In all the videos, I see bits and pieces of the set I learned, but this one has the most close matches. Our first line is 2 repetitions of the drill shown starting at about :54. Then we come back down the floor with four repetitions of the drill at 2:19. Our third line is two repetitions of the drill starting at 3:15ish. Then we finish with a row of a drill that I don't see exactly here, but that amounts to a sharp diagonal pull/push combo with footwork similar to line 2. We practice pretty much everything in the clips you posted here, but it's those four rows that make up the set we call liudakai. So it's clear that the set liudakai is not synonymous with the liudakai themselves, which is what I suspected, and what I was curious about. I just wasn't clear on that because, as I said above, we're much heavier on practice than we are on terminology and theory. It's similar to something Omar said in a thread a while ago, about how his teacher initially focused his corrections on having Omar increase his intention and fierceness rather than focusing initially on some of the intricacies of the angles of his feet, or what have you.
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby Dillon on Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:18 pm

Omar (bailewen) wrote:
cotton boxer wrote:thx. for posting this
i'll ask some questions . i have noticed that baji seems to be quite defined as to how they deliver power to the ground in there foot work. How does this play out in baji's use of fajin specifically as told to you by your sifu/master ?


Stomping sends a shock out through the hands. Gotta have excellent timing though. It only adds power if the hand and foot land exactly at the same time. Then add the heng-ha and you have breathing to coordinate. "ha" is the same as a good ki-ai. When evaluating a form performance you can check their whole body power by just listening. There is the stomping sound and the "ha!" If they are at all sequential then the power is not unified. Watching it you get 3 things to coordinate.

1. stomp
2. ha!
3. end of movement.

The better you can unify the timing on these three things, the better the power. Ning jiao or duo jiao, it doesn't matter. The mechanics are different but the purpose is the same. Some moves require ning, some require duo and still others require a third kind where you drive the rear leg backward, especially driving the rear heel deep into the ground as you do so.

Secondarily, the foot stomping expends tremendous energy and really does strengthen the legs in an unusual way. I personally feel that the sudden jolts and shocks that you get from them as you run through the form give the form a much closer kinesthetic feel to actual fighting than any other empty hand forms I have experienced so far. Sparring or fighting tends to involve a lot of bumping and jostling. You are also often thrown this way or that and need to slam your feet down to anchor yourself against someone who is muscling you around. The duo and ning jiao simulate much of this feeling very nicely.


Good post. I was recently thinking about how similar the stomping power feels to hitting the heavy bag full tilt. The shock on the body feels very similar.
Last edited by Dillon on Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby bailewen on Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:08 pm

thnx.
Click here for my Baji Leitai clip.
www.xiangwuhui.com

p.s. the name is pronounced "buy le when"
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby Shenquan on Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:31 pm

Omar (bailewen) wrote: Stomping sends a shock out through the hands. Gotta have excellent timing though. It only adds power if the hand and foot land exactly at the same time.

Actually I think that might not always be true. In some branches/schools (including the one I practice) it is taught that the stomping comes just a little before the hand in order to add extra power to the blow. I don't think that one method is better than the other but there are at least two currents concerning this issue
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby bailewen on Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:28 am

At the risk of sounding argumentative . . .

How do you reconcile the other way(hand arrives slightly after the foot) with the 3 harmonies?
Click here for my Baji Leitai clip.
www.xiangwuhui.com

p.s. the name is pronounced "buy le when"
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Re: Ba Ji stepping

Postby Shenquan on Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:08 pm

I actually don't see any contradiction. I believe the 3 harmonies (foot-hand ecc, just to avoid misunderstanding) refer widely to the use of whole-body power rather then specifically on timing. Just to give an example, if you take a look at these two videos, it is quite evident that foot comes slightly before the hit but fajin is nevertheless effective
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=YfgaxxySGSQ
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=86oqtnjXR8U
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