Peng, Lu Ji An usage

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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby qiphlow on Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:21 pm

Josealb wrote:uhm...I did not just made a comment on a taichi thread. Ok. Need some rum to sharpen up...im getting soft. :o ;D


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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby kreese on Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:12 pm

chicagoTaiJi wrote:well peng means expand and refers to a specific motion which involves the whole body expanding (and typically, a step)...

I am just saying I do not see in the first clip, where exactly is the peng.... if anyone does not know, how can you say there is peng there?


Peng does not require a step.

Su goes back and shows each movement clearly. I just told you where peng appears as well. Are you willfully ignorant? It really seems that your lack of ability to see anything here is merely that.
Last edited by kreese on Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby chicagoTaiJi on Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:18 pm

DeusTrismegistus wrote:
chicagoTaiJi wrote:
Dmitri wrote:'peng' as a posture/movement/application? More than once; the first time is back of his left hand to the face, at 0:07


why would one 'peng' someone's head (when one can easily miss), rather than using a good old-fashioned punch?


Why do you think Peng misses the head any easier than a good old fashioned punch?


when you make contact with someones head and try to put your body weight into it, dont you think you're leaving your stomach wide open?

when you block a punch do you go for the fist or the arm?

when you use a "peng jin" do you go for the body or the thing sitting on top ?
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:39 pm

chicagoTaiJi wrote:
DeusTrismegistus wrote:
chicagoTaiJi wrote:
why would one 'peng' someone's head (when one can easily miss), rather than using a good old-fashioned punch?


Why do you think Peng misses the head any easier than a good old fashioned punch?


when you make contact with someones head and try to put your body weight into it, dont you think you're leaving your stomach wide open?

when you block a punch do you go for the fist or the arm?

when you use a "peng jin" do you go for the body or the thing sitting on top ?


I don't see an answer to my question.

Whenever you do anything there is an opening somewhere. Peng is no exception.

I don't know why you asked about blocking but you will make contact with the arm when you block, unless you are just covering up.

You don't use a "peng jin". Peng is a technique, peng jin is a quality your body has. As for me personally I don't think about using peng or any other taiji technique when I spar. I just spar and the techniques come out on their own.
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby TaoJoannes on Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:39 pm

I-mon wrote:here's an interesting clip which helps clarify what he's doing:



just like with the "peng" in the first clip, the point seems clear to me that it's not "this is how we do it" or "this is how you should do it" but rather "this posture/movement contains all of these potential qualities/directions/applications". see how in the clip i posted he does the taiji opening form normally, and then in the extrapolatory form his legs are wider and he squeezes his inner thighs together? that squeezing of the inner thighs is something which has taken me years to work out and he's showing that the feeling should be present even if it's not clearly visible in the standard forms. same goes for the rest. a posture isn't a posture, it's a whole bunch of stuff condensed into what looks from the outside like "a posture".


Very, very, VERY nice. When I watched the first one I was like, "Well, that looks like just a big flowery bunch of add-ons to Grasp Sparrow's Tail" but that explanation makes a lot of sense.
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby chicagoTaiJi on Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:41 pm

the chest opening before the hands is a clear violation of the classics
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby SPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:22 pm



the vid speaks for itself.

1. the start up posture was to practice to rise the qi all the way to bai hui xue on top of the skull coupled with raising up the wrists. and then sink qi all the way down to yong quan xue at the bottom of your sole coupled with lowering the wrists and bending the knees.

2. he then varied the posture.

opening (Kai) and closing (He) as noticed and pointed out, but he also raised/rose and then moved to the left and sat on hip/sank, then moved to the right/sat on hip/sank and then back to center and then rose and sank again coupled with open and shrink/close.

his variations accentuated more practices of opening, closing, rising and sinking.

--

my point is that the hand moves are only secondary or coupled with rise and sink and not coupled with open and close.

which is ok.

;D
Last edited by SPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby chicagoTaiJi on Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:27 pm

hands moving by themselves independent of whole body is "ok" as long as you do not have to respect the most fundamental principles of the art
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby SPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:31 pm

it is just a focused practice of each element/ingredient.

he may also practice the body moves without hand moves or head turning.

--
Last edited by SPJ on Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:35 pm

chicagoTaiJi wrote:hands moving by themselves independent of whole body is "ok" as long as you do not have to respect the most fundamental principles of the art


yep, one of the few people who can fight with IMA is not following the classics. I think master Su has more knowledge of the classics in his little finger than most of us will ever have.
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby chicagoTaiJi on Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:09 am

DeusTrismegistus wrote:I think master Su has more knowledge of the classics in his little finger than most of us will ever have.



so, why is it that why do you look up to this guy?
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby SPJ on Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:29 am

SPJ wrote:

the vid speaks for itself.

1. the start up posture was to practice to rise the qi all the way to bai hui xue on top of the skull coupled with raising up the wrists. and then sink qi all the way down to yong quan xue at the bottom of your sole coupled with lowering the wrists and bending the knees.

2. he then varied the posture.

opening (Kai) and closing (He) as noticed and pointed out, but he also raised/rose and then moved to the left and sat on hip/sank, then moved to the right/sat on hip/sank and then back to center and then rose and sank again coupled with open and shrink/close.

his variations accentuated more practices of opening, closing, rising and sinking.

--

my point is that the hand moves are only secondary or coupled with rise and sink and not coupled with open and close.

which is ok.

;D


the practice also include the 3 stepping

look to the left, gaze to the right and central equilibrium or gu pan and zhong ding.

I think I list many of the moves are in line with classics.

you are entitled to your oppion that they are breaching the classics.

--
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby chicagoTaiJi on Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:06 am

as you are entitled to yours that the arms move without whole body movement has anything to do with the classics or tai ji quan.
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby Dmitri on Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:18 am

chicagoTaiJi wrote:as you are entitled to yours that the arms move without whole body movement has anything to do with the classics or tai ji quan.

Kindly post a link to a video by any taiji master doing the opening move of the form, where you would say that he does move his arms with whole body movement. Just so we could see the distinction, exactly what is it you see lacking in SDC's movement.
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Re: Peng, Lu Ji An usage

Postby SPJ on Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:46 am

opening and closing

referring also to chest/back

hip/kua and steps.

so we may practice all of these without hand movements.

open and shrink your chest with out hand moves.

knees closing in and spreading with out hand moves.

steps close and extend one step out forward, left, right, backward etc with out hand moves.

they are all practicing kai and he at different levels without hand moves.

again, in the vid discussed. Mr. Su used his hand moves with rise and sink or ti and an. when he does move his hands, his whole body moves with them, too.

again, I did not see any breaches of the classics.

if needed, I will explain more again.
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