Red Lightning Bagua Sword

[Bob]

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=K2tR0BqR3 ... re=related



Don't know anything about the school or the teacher but I like what I see.

[TaoBoxer]

I saw their Iron Palm DVD and a Ba Gua dvd. It was.... umm......

Lewitt

[nianfong]

looks like if that sword were sharp he might just cut himself. a lot. he's handling it more like a dao.
when I first learned taiji, my teacher told me the first rule of the jian is to never ever cut yourself with it. always keep your off hand either as far away from the edge as possible, or as close to the grip as possible. and usually when you swing it around you circle-like, you keep it as far from your body as possible.

dao on the other hand is a lot more friendly, and can be more close range.

[shawnsegler]

Well I wouldn't get on a greyhound with him anyway.

S

[edededed]

Bagua folks often use the jian much like a dao (刀劍不分) - see videos of Sun Jianyun, etc.

[nianfong]

really? but he looks dangerously close to cutting himself with that sword a lot. I don't think that makes sense. a 2-edged blade is a completely different beast from a single edged blade. there are certain fundamental practicalities that transcend style.

[edededed]

I guess you just have to make sure you have "super-gong" first, to make sure that your sword doesn't cut you while you leave it so close to your body? Of course, even in bagua, you don't ever try to support the sword blade with your hand...

(As an aside, never heard of "red lightning sword," but who knows...)

[nianfong]

no I think it's just dumb the way his sword is moving so close to his own rib cage. someone knocks his sword at that instant, and he cuts his own rib muscles. look at 1:25 to the end, and see how he flourishes his jian. he's gonna cut his own arm, hand, ribs, lats, and sometimes even his own hair.
no gong is strong enough to prevent that.

note his "guard" like position where his sword is like 6 inches from his belly. that's quite a dangerous position to hold a 2 edged sword.

if it was a dao, those motions would be a non-issue.

[edededed]

Oh, okay. (I watched the video last night, but I don't remember it so well now, so maybe you are right.)

[count]

I guess you just have to make sure you have "super-gong" first, to make sure that your sword doesn't cut you while you leave it so close to your body? Of course, even in bagua, you don't ever try to support the sword blade with your hand...

(As an aside, never heard of "red lightning sword," but who knows...)

hmmm

Maybe mountain should be shan instead of lightning shan. Red Mountain (Known for the red sand of the mountain due to the rich iron.) swords or Kun Wu Jian is the trademark of our blades/jians.

Ya, who knows, my Chinese language skills suck.

I like the guy too. Can't tell much from him just showing some movement and dancing around a bit for the camera. I didn't see much that was uncharacteristic of bagua or jian movement except for distinctively shaolin like stances. The guy has a huge background in JMA too. Lot's of influences there.

[count]

I actually just read this at his website and it sheds more clues of the names of his forms.

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[nianfong]

some awesome xingyi jian:

note how his opposite hand never goes near the sword blade. and note how the sword is always in front of him when it gets anywhere near his own body, so he can see whether it gets too close. never does he threaten to cut his own arm or back.

some chen taiji jian, by chen zheng lei

again, note how the sword is respected on both of its edges, and held away from the body.

sun jian yun looks like she's gonna cut her hands off with this bagua jian too:


but note how sun zhijun keeps the blade away from his own body at most times here, and keeps his opposite hand behind the hilt: (bagua jian also)

[GrahamB]

my teacher told me the first rule of the jian is to never ever cut yourself with it.

No shit! Did he also tell you not to run with scissors? That's very dangerous too

b.t.w. I agree with you - he's handling it more like a Dao. Maybe he's just using Jian because a Dao wasn't available in the room?

Then of course, there's also the argument that you can use a Jian like that if it's a heavy robust battlefield type one (not so razor sharp), not the extra sharp, bendy, civilian version for dueling, and provided you are wearing armour on your arms and torso.

[GrahamB]

some awesome xingyi jian:

note how his opposite hand never goes near the sword blade. and note how the sword is always in front of him when it gets anywhere near his own body, so he can see whether it gets too close. never does he threaten to cut his own arm or back.

Fong - a serious question for you on a related, but different subject.

If that is "XingYi Jian" why does it bear no resemblance to XingYi in the stances or power usage? I see a lot of Shaolin forward weighted Gong Bu stances, a lot of one legged stances also found in the Northern Shaolin Dragon sword I practice, and such like. Where's the characteristic San Ti starting position? Where is Pi and Beng? etc...?

I'm not saying I don't like it - I think it's actually pretty good, I just see a lot of Shaolin stances and no XingYi.
G

[count]

some awesome xingyi jian:

note how his opposite hand never goes near the sword blade. and note how the sword is always in front of him when it gets anywhere near his own body, so he can see whether it gets too close. never does he threaten to cut his own arm or back.

some chen taiji jian, by chen zheng lei

again, note how the sword is respected on both of its edges, and held away from the body.

sun jian yun looks like she's gonna cut her hands off with this bagua jian too:


but note how sun zhijun keeps the blade away from his own body at most times here, and keeps his opposite hand behind the hilt: (bagua jian also)

This is one of the best montages I have ever seen of jian. All my favorites.

I disagree Graham, The hsing-i guy is clearly demonstrating hsing-i power with crisp, clean sword technique. His 6 harmonies are perfect in every movement. As a teacher, you must see that, even if you couldn't do it yourself.

Jian is the only classical weapon I have ever taken seriously. Most classical weapons training is for show, and the more dangerous it looks to an observer, the more it's emphasized by the performer. The first clip is a happy, modern man, dancing for the people and the camera. He's having fun. So what if his leg is straight in his 70/30 stance, or if he holds the blade at an angle that is unexpected. I'd expect him to get ragged on for his psychic kung fu more than his form around here.

Personally, I don't like to post negative things about clips posted in forums like this. If I don't like it, I just don't post. There is a lot to dis-agree with in the original clip. I only got into this because of the "Red Lightning" sword form. I still think that's a mis-translation, but there is no other form I have seen to compare his with. He probably just made it up for the camera. I think his only real intention was to run the batteries down so that lady would stop taping his class.

It's silly to compare the first clip with the 4 masters fong posted.