the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

From the Yang BanHou line.

Trees don't hit back!

thats why
are ideal partners for free hittings

Actually, Graham, properly dug posts and soft barked, flexible trees do hit back! LOL

This is only part of the training and also involves two person training.

We posted this clip previously to make the point that this type of training is indistinguishable from the baji/pigua training I learned. However, the best way to start this training is to put both feet together, tips of feet and face are parallel to the tree [you are not facing the tree], lean about 60 degrees to the tree, extend your palm against the tree. With your finger tips push against the tree forming a lotus palm with fingers remaining in contact with the tree. Now, with no power other than you bodyweight---let the palm collapse. This also helps train the finger tips too. This is a progressive system that patterns itself after the posture/open hand movements of the form as does many of the da qiang exercises.

There are trees in Taiwan that are soft and pulp like which are really ideal for this training. But again, this is only a segment of a training/development phase which can easily be taken out of context.

Thanks for the clip.

It looks like really good conditioning training.

If this type of trianing comes straight from its alleged source, it is good evidence that the way high level Taiji masters trained in the old days isn't all about softness as commonly believed today.

I have never read anywhere or heard from anyone I know that the Yang family did this sort of practice. This looks like it's right out of Shaolin training (iron palm variation). If I'm wrong, please point me to the text which describes Yang Ban Hou training this way, I would love to see it.

Books on rare plants don't always tell you that they need watering. I suspect that is because the text is about the specifics of the plants and not what is excepted as common practice. Peoepl sometimes forget that texts on CMA also existed in a context.

I might add that that is not much like any of the "Shaolin" derived iron palm systems I am familiar with. Those methods tend to be much more about equipment training with specific equipment, often made for a couple specific excercises.

This is a grandstudent of Qi Deju who learned the Taiji from Wu mengxia's senoir Taiji student
Meng Yuzhang.

As for this hitting the tree suff, it's the total invention of Qi Deju's student Xu Guangtian( who is
the teacher of this man in black). This has nothing to do with Yang Banhou.

yusen wrote:This is a grandstudent of Qi Deju who learned the Taiji from Wu mengxia's senoir Taiji student
Meng Yuzhang.

As for this hitting the tree suff, it's the total invention of Qi Deju's student Xu Guangtian( who is
the teacher of this man in black). This has nothing to do with Yang Banhou.

Ahh... that makes sense. At first look they look a lot like some of the Xinyi/Bagua tree conditioning drills I am familiar with.

yusen wrote:As for this hitting the tree suff, it's the total invention of Qi Deju's student Xu Guangtian( who is
the teacher of this man in black). This has nothing to do with Yang Banhou.

Thanks, that's what I thought. I've been seeing stuff like this from some TC people lately. Personally, I see no purpose in killing the nerves in my hands or arms; can't see how that would help my sensitivity, i.e. listening/sticking skills. To each his own of course.

Contra Steelincotton's point, we are talking martial arts here, and it is a good idea to experience some impact in training, both giving and receiving, so you are not surprised by what it feels like, in a real deal fight. If you look after that training detail some other way, well and good.

Live sparring is the best way to bridge the gap between forms and reality, but you run short on willing partners if you run it too hard, too often. Trees don't complain, or curse you or (in America) try to sue you for excessive force. (Really! There have been a few lawsuits alleging the martial arts teacher or classmate hit too hard! I wish I were making this stuff up.)

I don't see anything wrong with collapsing palm etc. against a tree, but then my formative years were spent whacking the makiwara, the boxer's bag and the occassional tree.

Edit: No one in the video seemed to be on the verge of damaging himself, verbum sapienti.

Also note that tree hitting is an integral part of traditional Bagua and Xinyi -- arts that are just as "internal" as Taiji