Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

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Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby tenaj on Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:57 am

I take Chen Style Tai Chi and my teacher's teacher is Camillo Sanchez and his teacher was f j paolillo. I don't know what it is but we are not given a list of the movements or a video of the Chen Lao Jia that we do. My instructor told me that no one else does this form and that I will not be able to find the list of movements or a video of it on the web because it was developed by several masters.

He said it is Chen Lao Jia but it is so different from what I have seen and it's hard for me to practice because I don't have a list of movements and would like to see a video and a lot of time is not spent in class on it. I've been doing it for 1 year and a half and barely got 1/4 of the form done. Does anyone know have a list of movements or a video of the style of Chen Tai Chi form that was developed by F J Paolillo. He is doing silk reeling in this video.

Last edited by tenaj on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby tenaj on Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:32 am

Here's the video
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby charles on Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:35 am

It appears you've already seen this one, which is not Yi Lu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnhdD3b ... re=related.

One suggestion is to ask your teacher if he'll allow you to video tape him for your own use and study. Alternatively, ask him if he will make a demonstration/instructional video for your use or for sale.
Last edited by charles on Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby tenaj on Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:44 am

charles wrote:It appears you've already seen this one, which is not Yi Lu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnhdD3b ... re=related.

One suggestion is to ask your teacher if he'll allow you to video tape him for your own use and study. Alternatively, ask him if he will make a demonstration/instructional video for your use or for sale.


Yes, I've seen that one and it's not our form and he did that in 1993. I've asked if a video can be recorded and if i can get a list of the movements and the answer is no because he is teaching someone else's form. But thank you.
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby charles on Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:59 am

One advantage of studying a traditional style with identifiable lineage is that one is not limited to a single source for information, instruction and corrections. :-X
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby wuwei sifu on Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:40 am

hey dude,
1st. the instructor should be telling students the name of the postures you are doing. if that is occuring then you are supposed to write them down in your note book/journal.

next observance i made came via " it's hard for me to practice because I don't have a list of movements and would like to see a video and a lot of time is not spent in class on it. "

1.a list of movements is not the prerequisite to normal practice if you are being taught a form (any form) properly imho.
which goes back to the ststement i made above.

2. imho, if you are practicing/training what you are taught then you shouldn't be having any real issues related to recalling what you are doing. daily practice makes this so, then u see you teacher and he should say like i/most do show me. then he makes corrections which yopu are supposed to make notes on in your journal/notebook. process repacts itself until you get the whole thing to a certain minimum standard.

at that point you have just scratched the surface of your form, and the teacher should then relay to you how to make it better, by cluing you in on various nuances of the form and by also pointing out various ways to emphasize diffrent things in your form to make your form more complete from inside to outside. that way you won't have a superficial form and the results you are after should be realized over time.

most teachers do not allow students to train by watching a video tape, they are seen as a crutch for the most part and only used if used at all for reference. using them imho in the beginning of study seems to do more harm to ones development then good. in a weird way too imho.

can certain folks still benefit from a video while a beginner? sure they can, but many will not; then the video gets to be a bone of contention, which further hinders your progress imho.

there was never a video for our yang style form either, i would and still do refer some of my students to particular video clips of other yang styleist to make a point/allow then to see something that is close to what we do. i try to always mention in class that this or that posture/movement in our form is not usually seen in standard/orthodox yang style taijiquan. i also tell them which folks do have elements of what we do & sometimes i can tell them why it is this way or that way etc., etc. .


just a quick recon of you're teacher showed this

http://www.taoinstitute.org/master_paolillo.html

He is a certified instructor (Sifu) of the Shantung Martial Arts of China and recipient of the “Educator of Kung Fu” award under his primary teacher, Grandmaster Poi Chan of Sha Cheng.

Sifu Paolillo has studied with Internal Martial Arts Masters: Kay Chi Leung of Taiwan, Li En Jiu of Jinan, Zhang Xia Xin of Bejing, and Hing Lun Kwan of Zhengzhou

lineage 411=Sifu Paolillo has studied with some of China’s finest teachers to bring the best traditional training to his students. A selection of teachers is provided below:

Grandmaster Poi Chan of Sha Cheng

Master Pui Chan is the 6th generation successor of the Northern Praying Mantis System and 33rd generation successor of the Shaolin Temple, China. In addition to being a disciple of Grand Master Lee Kwan Shan, he has studied under several masters of the style.

Dr. Kay-Chi Leung of Taiwan

Dr. Kay-Chi Leung was born in Canton, China, and has spent most of his life studying in Taiwan. He is the son-in-law and favorite student of the late master Harn Ch'in T'ang, from whom he learned Northern Shaolin, Ch'in-Na, and Yang style T'ai Chi. Dr. Leung is also the Head Disciple of Grandmaster Liu Yun Chiao, who taught him Pa-Kua, Mi-Tsung, Ba Gua, Pi-Kua, and Praying Mantis. Dr. Leung has had over 15 different teachers who have taught him over 10 systems. He is also a doctor of Chinese Acupuncture, Orthopedics, and western dentistry

Li en Jiu of Jinan

Li En Jiu is well known worldwide for his Tai Chi. It is less well known that he is a top Mei Hua Mantis stylist as well. He teaches in Shandong and has given demonstrations and tours throughout the United States. Li En Jiu is the leading exponent of the Hong branch of the Chen Style Tai Chi. He is particularly famous for his Pao Chui. Li studied from Hong JunSheng (1906-1996) who learned directly from Chen FaKe In BeiJing.

Zhang Xia Xin of Beijing

Master Zhang Xuexin began studying Chen-style Taijiquan in 1963. He studied both the "Lao Jia" and "Xin Jia" forms of Chen-Style Taijiquan. He studied from: Li Reiyuan (Chen Fake's stepdaughter) in 1963, Rui Mongni (an early student of Chen Fake) in 1965, and Chen Zhaokuai (Chen Fake's second son) from 1966 to 1970. Chen Zhaokuai's training emphasized "qinna" (joint-locking and grappling) and "silk-reeling" techniques. In 1970, he settled in Beijing and studied with Feng Zhiqiang, one of Chen Fake's senior students. Feng Zhiqiang's training focused on internal power, push-hands, and sparring.

Please direct all questions or comments to [email protected]


note:For more information about classes and private instruction, call Dr. Leung at (617) 497-4459

Also another teacher seems to be Harn Ch'in T'ang who is the father of one of the teacher's the only thing I found was this

Jiang Yu K'un began martial arts training at the age of 7 with his uncle. Then his Tai Chi training began with Han Ch'ing-t'ang. In Zhejiang provincial Wushu Academy he became the student of Yang Chengfu at his age of 30's. After passing the entrance exam of Nanjing China Central Wushu Institute


[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/user/petermartin ... 4IEoLbuLL0 [/youtube]

SO FAR AS THIS CLIP ABOVE, i have been thinking of a similar type presentation to show case taijiquan. eventually once life settlesfor me down maybe this will happen. i know folks who can easily do the music and it will have a combination of genre's/ flavors musically.

i hope thgis post helps u cause i spent all my computer time on it basically 1 hour. i type slow btw so... lol.
when you misinterpret my words please don't blame me for that; or act like i said what you changed based on a faulty interpretation instead of taking my words as written ! (I know, this is the internet, but that doesn't mean you can put words in my mouth)
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby charles on Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:46 am

Zhang Xuexin has lived in San Francisco since about 1990. Li Enjiu has been to North America a few times to give seminars. In the two clips of Paolillo, there is zero element of either Hong's or Feng's style displayed, both of which have obvious, unique characteristics that make them immediately recognizable.
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby Andy_S on Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:06 am

Tenaj:

Firstly, let me say that I think you teacher has solid gongfu: he displayed decent shenfa in the first video, albeit most of it looked more like Bagua than Chen Taiji to me. The second clip (from 1993) showed the Chen Taiji techniques, though I would question the shenfa. I suspect your teacher knows what he is doing and may well have blended bagua, mantis and taiji, in terms of bufa, shenfa and technique.

Charles notes that there are very few elements of Hong (Jun-sheng) or Feng (Zhi-qiang) style Chen Taijiquan in the clips posted, but if your teacher has been dong this material that long, I would say that "recognizable style" is not the key element, he may have moved beyond that.

Speaking more broadly, the key points in IMA are - in my humble opinion - this. Does he have:
Coordinated, centred and relaxed body movement?
Movement within the frame of applied biomechanics?
Spiral motion in the limbs?
Rounded movement in all postures?
And (this is critical) advanced movement abilities and decent health (mobility; posture; endurance; flexibilty; strength) at an advanced age?

if the answer to the above, is "Yes" then carry on and ignore everyone else.

I would also suggest you invite your teacher on to this forum; I would certaily be interested in conversing with him.

FWIW, I have been practicing Chen Taijiquan from the village line since 1995, Charles from the Hong JS line (I think) a bit longer; and Ors from the Feng line about the same as me.

To put it another way: There is significant Chen Taiji experience on this forum.

Best regards -
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby charles on Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:14 am

Andy_S wrote: Charles from the Hong JS line (I think) a bit longer


Andy,

I started with Yang style about 1990. Since about 1995, I've studied Village and Feng styles. Along the way, I've received an introduction to Hong's style.

Note that as stated, Paolillo is tenaj's teacher's, teacher's teacher. Given that he claims to have studied with ZXX and LEJ, and his webpage curriculum states that he teaches "Hun Yuan Chen Silk Reeling Qi Gong", I'd expect to see some elements of those styles in his practice. Granted, those are short clips and, I'm sure, don't demonstrate his entire range of practice. But, tenaj didn't ask for a critique of what is shown, or advice, other than on obtaining footage/form names of the style he is practising.
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby charles on Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:26 am

From Camilo Sanchez's webpage, http://www.elixirqigong.com/#/bio/4537491489


In 1982 the recognized Himalayan yoga master Swami Satyananda Paramahansa initiated Camilo into the authentic tradition of yoga while in residence at the Satyananda ashram in Munger, India. He was introduced to the arts of Taoist healing and Tai Chi in 1986 under the tutelage of his teacher Dr. Rev. Richard Browne at the Acupuncture and Massage College in Miami, FL. Subsequently Dr. Camilo has studied with various notable Qigong and Tai Chi masters both in the States and abroad including Master Wang Fengming, Master Chunyi Lin, and Master Shu Dong Li.

Dr. Camilo is an indoor disciple under 19th generation Chen Tai Chi Master Zhang Xue Xin both a student of Chen Zhao Kui and top senior disciple of Master Feng Zhiquiang of Beijing. Camilo received the true tradition of the Tao teachings and Tai Chi under his teacher Master F. Paolillo in the tradition of masters Kay Chi Leung and Li En Jiu which traces its origins to the Chen family, the source of Tai Chi practice. His Bagua Zhang training comes through the lineage of Master Hing Lun Kwan.

Dr. Camilo developed the system of Elixir Qigong™ a registered method of Qigong energy healing designed to empower people to awaken the healing elixir within the body, and Dragon Qi-yoga a system of Taoist yoga exercises to activate the body’s twelve main pathways for life energy and healing.


....

Thank you for your interest in the Elixir Qigong™ Certification Training. Qigong is an ancient Chinese energy healing practice that awakens and circulates the life energy or Qi within the body to enhance health, improve fitness, achieve longevity, and enlighten the spirit.

Elixir Qigong™ is a registered method of energy healing and one of the most profound Qigong systems designed to awaken the healing elixir within the body. Qigong is gaining great momentum and is at the brink of becoming one of the main methods of energy healing and alternative care. Dr. Camilo Sanchez believes that Qigong is set to emerge as the health and fitness revolution of the twenty-first century. Nowadays, more people are looking for qualified Qigong healing practitioners. This course will provide you with a unique opportunity to develop your innate healing potential, and empower you with a complete method of self-healing and healing others with Qi.

The Elixir Qigong Certification Training begins on April 9th & 10, 2011. Class meets the first weekend of the month on Saturdays from 9:15 am – 5:00 pm, and Sundays from 10:00 am – 5:00 pm., for twelve months. Tuition for the entire program is $2,425. The minimum deposit is $350 and the balance can be paid in six installments of $345. We accept major credit cards, check or cash. Payment in full receives a 10% discount. Half of payment upfront receives a 5% discount.
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby Andy_S on Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:35 am

Charles:

Thanks for the clarification re your own background and thanks also for tracking down Camillo online.

That having been said:
Regardless of lineage, the original video looked pretty good to me from a solo IMA perspective. Principle is principle and the chap has it: lines; biomechanics; relaxation; flow. Tastefully decorated sitting room too, which (as we all know) is core to IMA.

I would criticize the way he leans forward when he takes a low stance, but he is certainly not alone in that.
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby shawnsegler on Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:46 am

I liked that.
I prefer
You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby tenaj on Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:51 pm

Thank you Charles, Wuwei Sifu, Andy S and Shawn. I've been working back to back shifts and haven't had time to respond. Sanchez is my teacher's teacher and Paolillo was Sanchez's teacher. I'm just one of those people who need something written down, images, etc. other than watching someone do the movements.

In all my years of martial arts I've never had a problem learning the forms. Maybe because we got handouts of the stances and the entire form drawn images and we did drills and if anyone fell behind a senior person was assigned off from the group to work with them. I was taught don't move forward until you learn how to do it right and don't practice it wrong. However I do practice what I do know, like sinking at the right time, hand and weight position, dantian moving from the waist, etc.

I wrote down the movements from memory of what i thought I knew and the instructor said it was all wrong so I stopped.

I like to know what stance I'm in, while executing a movement and how to step into the next movement. That kind of stuff is not taught. I asked him to repeat how to step into a movement and he made a comment like what is this dance class. It's like watch and do it and remember it. I like instruction but was told that this martial arts is not taught like any other.

I don't have time during class to write down. I will try all the advice here and maybe if I learn enough of the form I will post a video. Thanks for everyone's input.
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby Dmitri on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:29 pm

tenaj wrote:I asked him to repeat how to step into a movement and he made a comment like what is this dance class. It's like watch and do it and remember it. I like instruction but was told that this martial arts is not taught like any other.

I'm sorry to say this, but from the above it really sounds to me like you might want to start looking for a better teacher (a different style).
A year and a half isn't that big a deal... I "gave up" after almost 4.5 years once I realized the teacher was... let's put it mildly, "not interested in my learning". :) I know several people who had to change styles/schools/etc. after many more years of invested work... The longest one I can recall had 25 years he has to "forget" and start over, because he didn't have the basics. But I digress...

In my book, if a teacher doesn't care whether or not you are learning well, he/she is simply not a good teacher, period. May be a super-nice person and/or a super-skilled MAist, but a very bad teacher; these qualities often coexist in perfect harmony in people. :)

Best of luck in any case... sounds like you're putting in a sincere effort; I would hate it if 10 years from now you'd suddenly realize that your time and money could have been invested a lot better from the beginning...
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Re: Anybody got a video of this Tai Chi developed by this Sifu

Postby tenaj on Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:58 pm

I'm not trying to call anybody out or say he is a bad teacher just because I can't remember what I've learned by the time I get home to practice. However I am having a hard time with the form and it is taught differently than when I had Kung Fu and Karate. I had a private lesson tonight, (we had no shows) and he worked with me on questions I had and spent time on the form.

He said I'm looking more like Tai Chi now and not so much Kung Fu so I feel hopeful and as soon as I get enough nerve and practice a lot more I will post a video. Thanks for everyone's help.
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