the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

by **Martin2** on Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:19 pm

by **Bao** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:17 am

Nice collection, thanks!

by **salcanzonieri** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:41 pm

More Wu TJQ Fast form that was missed:
Master Wang hao da Wu taichi fast form:

Wu Gongyi disciple performing fast form:

wutunan wu taiji fast form :

Compare all these Wu Fast forms to Yang Fast forms:
This one seems to be similar to Wu fast form (at least in the intro):

Yang taichi Fast form Nui Chunming Style:

Lim Bo Yan -- Yang Taiji Fast Form:

Li Sun Po Yang taijiquan fast form:

He Jinliang does fast yang Style Taijiquan:

tung dong yingjieh taiji fast form:

by **Andy_S** on Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:19 pm

Sal:

Martin, thanks for clips, glad to be able to see what all the discussiion is about.

Very interesting chinwag underway on the main board, re Wu Fast Form, which (if I have followed the conversation corretly) is, in Stephen Yan's well-informed opinion, the "original" Taoist 13 postures/original Taiji of Chen Chanxing and Yang Luchan.

What do you make of his argument, overall? And does this change any of your opinions as to the influence of various Shaolin styles in Yang Taiji?

FYI, I have posted on the main thread my views on those techs in the form which are/are not similar to today's Chen Taiji xinjia and laojia frames, which may (or may not) be of interest to you.

by **cdobe** on Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:42 am

Sal,
Wu Tunan's fast form is not supposed to be a Wu style fast form. According to his own writings this form comes from Yang Shaohou. Tunan's Wu taiji looked more like the standard Wu style.

CD

by **Martin2** on Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:22 am

Hello Andy S,

thanks for your message. I do not know anything about the Taoist 13 postures. So I can't help. Who knows, but as I wrote before I do not mind too much. Lineages and so on are too much trouble for me. My teacher is Ma Jiangbao and I love what he is teaching. He learned for shure form mother and father. I met them and know them as very respectable people. To find out the truth about the history I leave to other people. Looking forward for further results.

Greetings

Martin

by **salcanzonieri** on Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:48 am

Andy_S wrote:Sal:

Martin, thanks for clips, glad to be able to see what all the discussiion is about.

Very interesting chinwag underway on the main board, re Wu Fast Form, which (if I have followed the conversation corretly) is, in Stephen Yan's well-informed opinion, the "original" Taoist 13 postures/original Taiji of Chen Chanxing and Yang Luchan.

What do you make of his argument, overall? And does this change any of your opinions as to the influence of various Shaolin styles in Yang Taiji?

FYI, I have posted on the main thread my views on those techs in the form which are/are not similar to today's Chen Taiji xinjia and laojia frames, which may (or may not) be of interest to you.

Well, as far as the influence of Shaolin styles on Yang, that could only be the Rou Quan and related Nei Gong sets (6 harmony, which is essentially different variations of "Wash Face & Brush Knee"; Chan Yuan Gong, which is all the different "push hands" and "Big wheel turning" exercises also seen in Chen TJQ curriculum; Luohan 13 Gong, which teaches "yield, redirect, absorb, and release"). Then there is the Xiao Hong Quan set, which follows along more like the Yang main set than the Chen Yi Lu).
So, someone from Yang got some Shaolin Long Fist influence, and I think that would come from where Yang Lu chan is from, his town Yong Nian is known for its Hong Quan, and both he and the Wu brothers he taught his freshly learned "Chen" TJQ to ALL practiced it since they were youngsters.

Someone astute like Yang lu Chan and the Wu borthers would see that there was similarities within Hong Quan and what Yang Lu Chan learned from Chen, and proceed accordingly.

According to Dr. Yan, the reason that Hong Quan and Chen TJQ (and thus later Yang TJQ and Wu (Hao) TJQ) is because Hong Quan and TJQ all are developed from the same roots.

Now, the interesting thing is nothing I have seen in Shaolin Rou Quan is not also found in Tong Bei Quan and in the 13 Postures. Everything is there from theory to postures to movements to applications.
So, what came first? The Shaolin Nei Gongs (which then went to Taoists?) or the Taoist 13 Postures which Dong Cheng learned (and Dong Cheng's martial arts of Tong Bei Quan were a mixture of the 13 Postures, Hong Quan, Five Animals Shaolin, and Tai Zu Chang Quan - which again shows that everything has the same common roots)

by **salcanzonieri** on Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:50 am

cdobe wrote:Sal,
Wu Tunan's fast form is not supposed to be a Wu style fast form. According to his own writings this form comes from Yang Shaohou. Tunan's Wu taiji looked more like the standard Wu style.

CD

I know, but Dr. Yan said the Yang Shaohou's form was same as Wu Jianhuan's form.

by **Wu_Style_Disciple** on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:33 am

by **Yuen-Ming** on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:07 pm

salcanzonieri wrote:
cdobe wrote:Sal,
Wu Tunan's fast form is not supposed to be a Wu style fast form. According to his own writings this form comes from Yang Shaohou. Tunan's Wu taiji looked more like the standard Wu style.

CD

I know, but Dr. Yan said the Yang Shaohou's form was same as Wu Jianhuan's form.

Wu Tunan's fast frame was developed by himself and is totally unrelated with Shaohou's frame.
Wu style fast frame is also NOT Shaohou's fast frame (kuaiquan) and whomever would claim so has evidently not seen Shaohou's kuaiquan.
Wu and Yang were closely related so, of course, similarities are clearly also present but the two frames are very, very different.

YM

by **Wu_Style_Disciple** on Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:24 pm

The "other" version of the Wu Fast Form demonstrated by Sifu Eddie Wu Kwong Yu:

by **Wu_Style_Disciple** on Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:12 pm

Sifu Eddie Wu's workshop observations seemed related to this thread:

by **Yuen-Ming** on Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:37 pm

Tom wrote:YM,

Could you point us to any video clips demonstrating Shaohou's kuaiquan?

Thanks.

There is (luckily) no public video of Shaohou's kuaiquan that I know of

YM

by **Yuen-Ming** on Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:57 am

Tom wrote:I haven't seen anything either. Which probably is fortunate, because the authenticity would be either panned or dismissed.

I'm afraid you are probably right, Tom.
Most internet boards would laugh at Yang Luchan if a video was available

YM

by **wassy** on Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:15 am

hi martin, hi everyone,i am new here;
another clip to add to the collection,

here is a clip on my teacher demonstrating the fast form with a bit of fa jing;
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzUO1XWwGM

happy new year all

the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

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