Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

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Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby wuwei sifu on Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:39 pm

Hi folks ,
i have never seen or heard of this yang style teacher until today. does anyone know anything about him ?(Zhu Chun Chuan)
can anyone say how he accomplishes the finger to nose kung fu/skill

when you misinterpret my words please don't blame me for that; or act like i said what you changed based on a faulty interpretation instead of taking my words as written ! (I know, this is the internet, but that doesn't mean you can put words in my mouth)
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby nicklinjm on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:42 pm

This is Zhu Chunxuan, the son of Zhu Huaiyuan. He belongs to the group of Yang stylists coming down from Wang Yongquan in Beijing (Zhu Huaiyuan being one of Wang's senior disciples), who got most of their teachings from Yang Jianhou.

As for the stuff that Zhu displays in his push hands (not just this clip), can't really help out there as I have never experienced anything like this.
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby Andy_S on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:44 am

SNIP
can anyone say how he accomplishes the finger to nose kung fu/skill
SNIP

Why would you want to know about this "skill?"

Even in the (vast) corpus of appalling Taiji demonstrations, this has to be one of the silliest I have ever seen.
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby RobP2 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:41 am

wuwei sifu wrote:Hi folks ,
i have never seen or heard of this yang style teacher until today. does anyone know anything about him ?(Zhu Chun Chuan)
can anyone say how he accomplishes the finger to nose kung fu/skill



Simple, establish a line of tension from the finger through the arm and into the body. Add in a pliable student (Frasier?}) and bingo ???
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby Shane_Lindsay on Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:41 pm

well... its easy if you have someone pretend it works.

Watch closely at the 0.20 second mark and you'll see that the guys finger slips out of the nose and then he (the tall guy) wiggles his finger back into the nose- there's nothing impressive happening.... except that the teacher has someone willing to play along.
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby Steve Rowe on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:15 am

He didn't even lock it in place by getting it up his nose, silly man.
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby marvin8 on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:38 pm

More recent video from same website.

woledage
Published on Mar 9, 2019

Continuation of #3 I am trying to help by explaining while demonstrating to Ohio students Huang Laoshi and Zhu's Laoshi's methods using taijis Daoists Yin & Yang theory of "The Way of No Fighting Harmonizing Yin Yang everywhere for applications and usage in free style tuishou. Some ideas for applications are shown here using his strict teachings about how to "Yield and Avoid by Harmonizing Yin and Yang" thus taking position of control. One must have a non fighting mind and understand the defensive aspects to be internally effective. Looks easy, not easy. I studied from Master Huang Tzengyu for almost 20 years, learning many things and methods including the Old Wu 108 form, Taiji jian, Tuishou, and Daoism. It was Beijing's Master Zhu Chun Xuans clarity and his vast knowledge that led me to understand this and use it confidently and effectively. I am so lucky to have had two great teachers years apart that never met yet were so close in the taiji way. I am even more fortunate Zhu Laoshi is still alive. I don't think I would of ever have really gotten this without his sincere teaching and guidance the last 11 years. Thank you for your interest everyone and I hope you enjoy this clip. If there is anyone seriously interested in learning what I have to teach please contact me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvyVATWZotU
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby everything on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:51 pm

don't know about the nose, but the other videos look interesting.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby Appledog on Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:23 am

Now I can tell you again how to figure out when someone is lying to you and cheating you.

When someone presents a ridiculous demonstration of skill such as this, they are lying to you and cheating you, because they are presenting some game to you which may or may not be real, but if it is real, that is not how they train and practice it. So whether or not it is real you can never learn anything from it. Maybe if you join their group and give them a lot of money you can learn to do the same trick, and maybe if your lucky you can learn to use it in a fight. But I doubt it.

Now go look at the videos of Ma Yue-Liang doing push hands, or the videos of Feng Zhi-Qiang doing applications (particularly the recent BKTS app video shown, which was beautiful). It is night and day, when you are being shown the truth and when you are being shown some kind of fakery BS. The real stuff looks like the move, it looks like how you train. The fake BS stuff is just some kind of parlor trick.

Real martial arts, for the most part, is actually very lonely and boring, at least in the sense that you train the same stuff over and over again. You are not looking for some "new" magical demonstration of skill. You are looking for someone who can apply the basics in a way that seems magical. But it has to come out of the basic practice.
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am

" You are not looking for some "new" magical demonstration of skill. You are looking for someone who can apply the basics in a way that seems magical. But it has to come out of the basic practice."


if one understands central equilibrium, what does it matter which point is used. Any point can be a center. Different teachers show this in different ways.

Yep, very basic, might seem magical to those who don't understand what they're looking at.
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby Bao on Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:50 am

Addressing the last vid only. Some things that looks abstract or fake are based on real methods....

...

Here, a Wu style Tai Chi teacher, a student of Wang Peisheng, show how to use "yanshen", or eye spirit. (Some might just call this "yi", or "intent".) He speaks about how he travels with his eyes, look far away and just let his body follow. He keeps his body connected, structured and move it as a whole letting the eyes lead and the body follow.

He doesn't say it right here, but as his opponent grabs his left hand, his hand is Yin and must stay Yin, so he can not move it as it would be force against force. He makes a cross connecting from right foot to left hand and step into his right foot following his eyes while his left side follows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUDoVJF4bmw

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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:11 pm

Bao wrote:Addressing the last vid only. Some things that looks abstract or fake are based on real methods....

...

Here, a Wu style Tai Chi teacher, a student of Wang Peisheng, show how to use "yanshen", or eye spirit. (Some might just call this "yi", or "intent".) He speaks about how he travels with his eyes, look far away and just let his body follow. He keeps his body connected, structured and move it as a whole letting the eyes lead and the body follow.

He doesn't say it right here, but as his opponent grabs his left hand, his hand is Yin and must stay Yin, so he can not move it as it would be force against force. He makes a cross connecting from right foot to left hand and step into his right foot following his eyes while his left side follows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUDoVJF4bmw



Nice clip,

There is more to it then what is said.

with my teacher and his group this is very basic and is taught very early on.
They used to talk about "hitting with the eye" a little hard to explain, see no value in doing so
here....If one can do this and the other can not feel it,,,,they get hit...because they've already been
hit....
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby Bill on Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:20 pm

That instructor nose Tai-chi.
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:38 pm

The aikido unbend able arm used with strength against strength and turn your body
Don't get what you see in it
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Zhu Chun Chuan "Finger to Nose" 7-2-08

Postby marvin8 on Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:47 pm

Well, he is demonstrating/explaining similar to what the 94 year old bagua master is demonstrating/explaining in this previous RSF thread, "what's this baguazhang master doing:"

Clips of around 1:09 to 1:55:

Image
Image

Translations/comments of 94 year old bagua master in previous thread:
bailewen wrote:
wingchun wrote:Perhaps you can explain what's going on internally in the old man's body at 1:09, 1:39 and 1:55 in the clip to create that type of reaction in his partners? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZdtM5p6ZkA

. . . 1:39 - The students left wrist is being locked. Students right hand has an overly firm grip locking it in place. The right hand can't change because it's being used to push on the mans elbow. But when he pushes, the man turns his elbow to deflect the push while simultaneously locking the students left wrist. That's why the student jumps. He gets stuck on the right and wrist locked o the left.

1:55 - He's is explaining a single palm change application. He says, "So how do we use a single palm change?" as the student approaches and grasps the teachers arm at the wrist and elbow. He continues, "For a single palm change, this hand goes over here (referring to his right hand, the one under his armpit), When this arm (bottom) moves, actually the push his here (referring to his free arm as he pushes the air with his fingertips extended)."He then invites the student to come and push him again but this time he says, "This time I push with this other arm (gets pushed off his base) Right? It's this arm over here that does the pushing. (again, emphasizing the free arm)"

That last bit, from 1:55 on, is just pure gold. I learned a lot from that that I was able to take back and apply in push hands and then later, I even used that trick in my leitai fight to throw a guy out of bounds and onto the ground. That old man's lesson taught me how to use "Brush Knee Twist Step" in an entirely different manner. Sometimes, the "pushing hand" is not striking the person at all. It is used to unify the body and lead the intent. In my case, it was the so called "blocking" hand, the "brush knee" part. That old man's video there was instrumental in me learning to do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyn3Z-kDes4
taiwandeutscher wrote:
C.J.W. wrote:The old Bagua teacher is showing IMA body mechanics and principles with a cooperative partner; it's a learning process known as "feeding energy," or 餵勁 in Chinese, and certainly should not to be viewed as fighting applications. The idea is to have a training partner apply proper amount pressure to your body (analogous to a mother feeding a child) while you learn how to internally connect to his center and control his frame.

IMO, he's mainly demonstrating how to shift between the substantial and the insubstantial (i.e., avoiding double-heaviness) by placing the energy (or intent) in the right place.

(For people who have not been exposed to similar methods, I can understand how this video is pretty much meaningless.)

Trur that! Nowadays this concept of Weijin seems to fade away, but I find it highly important of "baby stepping forward".
meeks wrote:earlier he's saying "doesn't matter how you get me, you can't move me (single opponent).

later at 1:09 he's saying in a thick beijing accent "lia ri lai" which is his thick accent for "liang ren lai" (2 people come) and he's using 'cheng jin' (expanding force) to repel them as a demonstration of his root - he also mentions earlier that he doesn't even need to move his feet to offset his opponents.

I'm usually pretty quick to close a video on chinese bagua - too much flowery crap that's mostly contrived... but I'd say this guys got the chops. Might not have the power he had 30 years ago, but he still is a slippery opponent and can show it.


Excerpt from "Qigong Training Leads to Higher Tai Chi Levels," T’ai Chi magazine (1991 April):
Zhang Xia Xin wrote:It can be easy to practice the Chen style or other styles of Tai Chi Chuan but the internal
power they offer can be hard to get, according to Zhang Xia Xin.

The top senior student of the famous Feng Zhiqiang,
Zhang said Tai Chi jing, or internal
power, is an essential part of the art and that a number of different practices are required to
get the pure Tai Chi power that combines softness and hardness. . . .

Zhang said the teacher sometimes has to show the student how to issue the different kinds of Tai Chi Chuan jing and to issue power on the student's body to show him if the power is used rightly or wrongly.

He said this is called wei jing, or feeding the jing
, to help the student understand the jing. "The teacher gives you jing by issuing it on your body and you try to give it back by
issuing it on the teacher so the teacher can tell if you are issuing it right or wrong."

Zhang said Chen fake was famous for his high kung-fu and pure Tai Chi Chuan power.

He said that in 1957, just months before he dies, he was seated in a chair and a student
came over to try and test him, pushing on his hand. Chen, who was president of the Tai Chi
Chuan society, used his peng (ward off) power to throw the student out the door.

Another story involves a Mongolian wrestler, whose arms were as big as his legs and who
was egged on to challenge at a national Tai Chi Chuan tournament in Tianjin City.

The wrestler thought he could lift Chen, who was over 70 and throw him a few feet away.

Then when Chen Fake was sitting, the wrestler went over to grab him to pull him up, but
Chen used one technique, Parting the Wild Horse's Mane, and broke the wrestler's arm
and threw him a few feet away. The wrestler had to go to the hospital. . . .

At that time all of the Yang style practitioners came to welcome him to Beijing and a lot of famous Yang style teachers had a welcoming party for him. But they didn't think he was a great master because he looked like a farmer.

After dinner, some of them asked to push hands with him. One of them was Li Jing Wu, now around 80 years old and still teaching in northern China. Chen Fake used a technique and threw Li very far away and he hit a second person and both fell down.

Li's wrist was injured.

Chen also demonstrated the Chen form movement and when he did the first movement, stamping on the floor, he broke the floor. This surprised all the people at the party and they all wanted to become his student, including many famous Yang stylists.

Zhang said another time, an army soldier came up with an unusual challenge which Chen Fake agreed to. Chen's hands were tied and he was to stand in a circle while the soldier used a broadsword to chop at him.

Chen was not allowed to use his hands and he couldn't go out of the circle. When the soldier attacked with the broadsword, Chen used his foot to kick the soldier's wrist and break it, making him drop the broadsword.

In order to get internal power, Zhang, who has studied the Chen style for 28 years, said it is important to focus on eight key concepts when practicing the form.

They are: 1. opening, 2. closing, 3. moving up and extension, 4. moving down and shrinking, 5. empty, 6. full, 7. rolling, and 8. circling.

Zhang, who is 65, said opening is from the inside to the outside and is like a flower opening its petals.

Closing, on the other hand, is from the outside squeezing to the inside.

Both these concepts have functions in self-defense as well as in form practice. . . .
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