the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

WindWalker wrote:with my teacher and his group this is very basic and is taught very early on.

Agree, very basic. But this and similar exercises are good to find that connection, not only body, but also practicing connection mind/intent and body.

wayne hansen wrote:The aikido unbend able arm used with strength against strength and turn your body
Don't get what you see in it

I suppose you mean the clip I posted? Yes, I like it. This gent is an honest and generous teacher.

In general, I like basic instructional videos better than teachers showing off their skills without explanation. It's easy to see skill levels when people perform most basic skills. But many try to hide their lack of even the most basic skill by using class-room cooperative students or talking in riddles.

I wouldn't call it strength against strength, though it's certainly not totally effortless. But as the whole body works against a small local strength, very little effort is needed. A good, and sure, a basic way, to learn more about leverage and how to connect your body.

Aikido bendable arm? Are you sure you don't see more here? An Aikido bendable arm is an extremely limited trick, a stationary one-dimensional extension movement locked in one direction without the ability to change. If there's no supporting direction of movement and the potential to change is not there, I wouldn't call it Tai Chi. Or maybe just bad Tai Chi. This gent has more skill than showing of that kind of limited parlour tricks.

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

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Yes, my main thought was about does the teacher actually want to teach you or not. If he doesn't then he will show you fast/free push hands and will lead you along by the nose like an ox.

If he's serious about teaching then methods like this are like gambling, because they're untested and unproven and will likely have a high failure rate in passing down skill. If someone is serious about teaching and learning it is unfair not to focus on the traditional way of teaching

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I find yours and others categorization of traditional training to be very different with those I've experienced it with.

"Traditional training" is designed to weed out people who cannot meet, or don't understand, the training requirements. It was never meant to train large groups of people, it was meant to develop those that were exceptional in most cases one went through a type of training that helped to determine many things one being ones ability to absorb the training, allowing the teacher to understand the type of clay they are working with...

As to being led like an ox, this would be true no matter what the training until one reaches a certain level of understanding.



The traditional way of teaching is not commercially viable. Which is why for some they do not run commercial gyms, or teach commercially.

My teacher in Beijing, didn't charge, or asked for money from those he trained. Having said this those that trained took care of him in the traditional way.

What you talk about as being contested or unproven, is proven and tested every time those who trained with them meet.

Many who trained using these methods have many years of practice in other arts. They understand exactly what why and how the methods are different, although they may not develop them to the highest degree or level.

Shane_Lindsay wrote:well... its easy if you have someone pretend it works.

Watch closely at the 0.20 second mark and you'll see that the guys finger slips out of the nose and then he (the tall guy) wiggles his finger back into the nose- there's nothing impressive happening.... except that the teacher has someone willing to play along.

I saw that too.

Still, it shows that if someone follows, you can lead him into emptiness. The setup is the idea that you will stay with his nose wherever it moves. Change the setup, you will keep your finger on his palm wherever that moves, and the trick is the same but less amusing.

So, a parlor trick, but a good one. I do not see that it has any martial application.

Oh, wait. There is sometimes the joker who is just determined to hold your wrist. There is in that its flipside: He has given you a strong anchor point to his hand. Is his hand holding your wrist, or is your wrist controlling his use of his hand? I refer to problems of the class as monkey fist traps.

Appledog wrote:Tai Chi as we all and you know is a secret art, and you cannot simply take something from another martial art -- even another internal art -- and use it to fuel your practice in Tai Chi. Doing so can be incredibly deceptive not only to others but most importantly to yourself.

My body conditioning is from Han Shi Yi Quan and I use it in Guang Ping Yang Taiji and push hands. The body conditioning can be put into any art.

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.

Last I saw, power is acceleration, and short power is short acceleration ( think dragster automobiles).

On that basis, the two best martial arts are xing yi and Western boxing, not necessarily in that order.

klonk wrote:Last I saw, power is acceleration, and short power is short acceleration ( think dragster automobiles).

On that basis, the two best martial arts are xing yi and Western boxing, not necessarily in that order.

That would pertain more to potential power. For the power itself, you have to look at the negative acceleration at impact, which is more about how much power you don't lose than how much you can generate initially.

No one has, in many long years, earnestly attacked me by gently touching hands, or inviting me to put my finger on his nose. I appreciate the purpose of the demonstration, but I do not over-value it. I hope I do not under-value it either. It must take great poise and skill. I do not think I could do it as well. I take its point to be leading the other fellow.

wuwei sifu wrote:Hi folks ,
i have never seen or heard of this yang style teacher until today. does anyone know anything about him ?(Zhu Chun Chuan)
can anyone say how he accomplishes the finger to nose kung fu/skill

I believe the process is simple.

First, acquire a dumb foreign devil who will believe in nonsense.

Second, milk him for cash.