Mike Kaniewski: Pi Quan

[mixjourneyman]

I dont understand the leaning forward and rocking back at the end. Seems like that would stop power transmission.

I do see alot of people leaning forward before starting the elements. I dont understand that either and I train hebei.

it just seems you sacrafice too much.

Peace
Tim

Hey Tim.
Just wanted to note that Zhang's lineage leans forward as a way of expressing force. In application you come in straight and then lean at the point of impact.

[TimHml]

Mix,

Thank you. I learned something new. I like seeing the different expressions of hebei xingyi within different lineages. Good stuff.

Peace
Tim

[kreese]

Luo De Xiu takes a pretty large step forward with his Pi Quan. That is something to consider when attempting to compare shen fa between styles. It makes a huge difference.

[nianfong]

not a fan of his pi quan. I like the prep and the strike itself, but don't like him rocking back after the hit. it diminishes his forward momentum/power.

[GrahamB]

He looks ok to me - ef guys are always so critical of things that look different to the way you do it yourself, or rather the way your teacher does it. We could all do better in that respect, me included. It's a big world out there. The rocking thing is probably like 2-5% of his whole performance. What about the other 95% - why not focus on that?

In the real world, if he smashed you in the face with Pi Quan, I think the fact that he rocked his body a little after he did it would be the last thing you're worried about.

Lou does all kinds of weird things (to me) in his video - Mix too (especially the hair ). I do it different than both of 'em. But beyond style I just look at whether what they're doing works - is power being issued, are they centred and rooted, and, er, would it hurt. They can dance a fandango after the Pi has landed if they want - that's not going to take away the fact it worked.

Sorry, I'm grumpy today. Been up all night with the little one full of cold and screaming in my ear. The joys of being a Dad

[Strange]

yes i think so too
"have it your way" like burger king
i like mine with more pickles and lettuce
... oh and of cos not forgetting the black pepper
what are we barbarians? crazy~

[baguaboy]

The 'rocking' shows disconnection with lower half and top half of body. I have these disconnections sometimes in my form practice too. Pichuan is a 'whole' body strike. If the body is disconnected then the strike is not as powerful as it could be.

I think Luo De-Xiu is showing some cool vertical dantien rotations with his subtle wavvy body movement.

[kreese]

Graham - I'm just curious what looks weird to you in Luo De Xiu's video. This is just so I can learn more about Hebei and its variations, not to start a style war.

[mixjourneyman]

Graham - I'm just curious what looks weird to you in Luo De Xiu's video. This is just so I can learn more about Hebei and its variations, not to start a style war.

I'm not Graham, but I would like to talk a little bit about Luo's vid or his wu xing.
The really interesting things in Luo's vid are the huge spinal wave and the over the head chop on pi quan.
I like the spinal wave, but I wonder if he does it in the form that way just for power and then applies it differently (since it takes a long time to wave the spine like that, it may be hard to set up in real time).
The over the head pi quan, I dunno about that. It doesn't make sense to me since it seems like the force would be broken at the shoulder, but then again, maybe the rest of his body method allows for him to get power like that.

[GrahamB]

Graham - I'm just curious what looks weird to you in Luo De Xiu's video. This is just so I can learn more about Hebei and its variations, not to start a style war.

Well... the thing is then I'm just pulled into the same nit-picking arguments that ultimately boild down to "my style does it different". Personally I like to enjoy the variety of life, and all the different styles. I'd rather just look at the bigger picture

But anyway, since you asked, here's one example - the way our style does it we don't draw both hands back towards the Dan Tien area at the start of Pi Chuan, like a lot of other styles do. Instead we do a very minimal Kou Jin (you can't really see it if you don't know it's there) then straight into the primary fist. Sifu Luo also turns to the side when he brings his fists back towards the dan tien... (but you see that could be where he's doing his Kou Jin, just done in a different place). Anyway, it's weird and different to me, but that's just me. I like what he's doing and everything seems to have a purpose. I have room in my world view for countless variations

[mixjourneyman]

The thing where Luo turns when he brings his hands in the his centre while setting up the drilling for pi is also in Zhang's bagua, but its much less pronounced than the way Luo does it. Graham is right, it is to isolate shoulder power (in Zhang's xingyi at least).

[GrahamB]

Thanks Mix. By "Kou" I actually meant "hooking" though. I can see how it would work for shoulder though, the way he's doing it.

[mixjourneyman]

Gotcha.

[chrislomas]

Just my twopenneth,
Sifu Lou seems to be demonstrating (I think) a way of developing a specific vertical power/roll from the dantien I have seen in some other lineages as well (hence the extensions etc). The other (hebei) places I saw it it was a valued 'in door' practice done slowly for about 30 minutes a day. If it is the same it is not (I would imagine) his primary method of pi chuan but an excellent learning tool to develop a certain dantien gong.

[Toby]

But anyway, since you asked, here's one example - the way our style does it we don't draw both hands back towards the Dan Tien area at the start of Pi Chuan, like a lot of other styles do. Instead we do a very minimal Kou Jin (you can't really see it if you don't know it's there) then straight into the primary fist.

What style do you do? Do you have any youtube videos up? I'm just curious because this sounds more like the Shanxi style I learn than most that I see online.