awesome bagua push hands routine!

[mixjourneyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW_1p3p3jcU

[dragontigerpalm]

Thanks for posting. I'm curious about the frequency that contact is broken which is obviously part of the play. Coincidentally my sifu just last week was demonstrating no contact 'control'. I wonder if this is similar. Generally I would think that broken contact = someone gets hit.

[ashe]

Thanks for posting. I'm curious about the frequency that contact is broken which is obviously part of the play. Coincidentally my sifu just last week was demonstrating no contact 'control'. I wonder if this is similar. Generally I would think that broken contact = someone gets hit.

hey marty, has the Sifu talked about "first YOU have to stick to him, then HE has to stick to you, then you move to no contact"?

[GrahamB]

Bagua isn't tai chi so I don't see a problem with breaking contact frequently.

[Bao]

There is no problem to break contact, not in taiji either. As J.W. would say, and has said: if you feel him, he can feel you - so you should try to use your tingjing but at the same time try to not make it easy for him to use his tingjin. I like what J.W said about PH should be like a sword fight - you stick to the weapon and constantly break the contact. This is a more realistic martial approach to PH. I miss J.W. He had a special way to look at things . . .

very nice clip btw

[dragontigerpalm]

Thanks for posting. I'm curious about the frequency that contact is broken which is obviously part of the play. Coincidentally my sifu just last week was demonstrating no contact 'control'. I wonder if this is similar. Generally I would think that broken contact = someone gets hit.

hey marty, has the Sifu talked about "first YOU have to stick to him, then HE has to stick to you, then you move to no contact"?

Yes, no contact develops from sticky contact as skill progresses is how I understood Sifu. This of course is way above my present skill level. I can't tell from the clip if the players are demonstrating a similar high level of skill when contact is broken or if the breaks are just interruptions before resuming contact.

[ashe]

I can't tell from the clip if the players are demonstrating a similar high level of skill when contact is broken or if the breaks are just interruptions before resuming contact.

i think this actually more like a routine than anything freestyle, so the breaks are probably part of the choreography, which i think a certain amount of is probably healthy.

keeps you from getting stuck on the idea of sticking all the time.

when your stuck at that first level of YOU having to stick HIM it can be really tiring without really getting you anywhere until you learn to relax a little bit, but by that time, you're already developing some offense within your sticky hand...

that was my experience anyway, OMMV.

[mixjourneyman]

A funny thing about this video is that I showed it to my teacher and he was like "its very good, but look, we can do this right now". He proceeded to start doing this type of stuff freestyle with me, while I sort of tried to keep up with his movement. It was challenging and tiring lol, but good fun.

[dragontigerpalm]

I can't tell from the clip if the players are demonstrating a similar high level of skill when contact is broken or if the breaks are just interruptions before resuming contact.

keeps you from getting stuck on the idea of sticking all the time.

I like the way you expressed that idea.

[David Boxen]

A funny thing about this video is that I showed it to my teacher and he was like "its very good, but look, we can do this right now". He proceeded to start doing this type of stuff freestyle with me, while I sort of tried to keep up with his movement. It was challenging and tiring lol, but good fun.

My thoughts exactly. Why bother with the routine? If both partners are interested in playing the game to develop skills instead of to "win", then freestyle should be no problem.

[Andy_S]

There's a lot of good material in that set. The first half is very familiar to me from Taiji, the second half, not so much.

Mix's teacher makes a great point - there is no reason why one should not take much form material and play it, two-man.

RE: Breaking contact
Perhaps the training point is not the breaking of contact, but of bridging from out of contact...?

RE: PH should be like a sword fight:
Sounds to me more like chisau than tuisau. In the former, the idea is to stay in contact, trap and strike. In tuisau, the idea is as much to offbalance then lock or throw. To take the sword analogy further, in chisau you want to pass your opponent/'s guard to stab or hack, while in tuisau, you may also want to break the opponent's sword/arm.