Waist vs. hip, internal discipline

[mixjourneyman]

so Graham you are saying yourself that you actually don't want to believe in anything deeper than what you currently understand.

lolofl.

[cdobe]

Blow back would be fine. What you don't want is follow through

LOL, Good one.

[somatai]

the problem is that you are trying to be reductionist in terms of defining anatomy....that may work well for cadavers, but we are living organisims and exist as a whole as opposed to an amalgam of parts

[D_Glenn]

Ah...I wasn't aware that we were just focusing on Bagua. The 30/70 saying is quite common among practitioners of Northern systems. I believe I first heard it from a Shaolin teacher.

I agree with your idea about the waist in Bagua and how legs and arms can do two things.

I'm not really familiar with the songs of other arts, so I can only guess at what they actually say or mean.

The song I'm referring to is in part:

"...要六和，勿散乱，气遍周身得自然。摆扣步，要仔细，转换进退在腰间。

手打三，脚打七，手脚齐进莫迟疑。胯打走，肩打撞，周身挤靠暗打膝。..."

The first line is basically: Yada, yada,yada, turning, changing, entering/advancing, and retreating all come from from the waist.

2nd line: The hands strike 3, leg strikes 7, hand and foot arrive simultaneously, the thighs hit as you enter, the shoulder bumps, the whole body leans in and hides the striking of the [opponents] knee.


I'm not the greatest of translators but I see nothing mentioned of power generation. Maybe the songs of the other arts are different or maybe they've just lost the application of using the hands and upper body to hide the leg attacks and it is the same thing.

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[Bodywork]

I enjoyed the video. The way I move is from the waist. I donlt move like him in the sense that waht I do is far more dynamic and shall we say ...active. It is none-the-less using similar principles.
The waist as a driver is confusing as it is merely a connection mechanism and It's not as absolute as the wast moves and the hips are frozen. The waist leads the hips. Hs further details some cross the body, or "cross line" work as I call it. I don' care to debate it, let folks do what they want. All I know is that men with serious skills have a F....kin hell of a time trying to throw me and when I hit people they donlt ever want me to do it again.
Central pivot-moving at the waist from a centrally held spine; that eminates from a moving and mobile dantien; which expands down and out is the best way to move.
Moving from the hips leaves you one side weighted everytime. BIIIIGGGGG mistake in grappling.
I'm happy to feel anyone who thinks they have a better way to move.

[everything]

I am become more aware lately of my lack of hip mobility. Waist is probably ok.

Wondering if you use or recommend using horse stance or variations as a periodic test or static training to open the kua or if do not bother with these exercises because form or circle walking is sufficient.

I am mainly doing simple squats every so often, no low stance holding type work except for some static bridges on the ground and occasional yoga that has stuff like warrior 1, 2, etc. Surely not enough, though.

[Neuro]

they play a supporting and guiding role, but should not do the bulk of the work, the movement of the arms ultimately should tie into the more global pattern of extension that occurs through the whole posterior chain....but keep moving howver you like

is the correct answer IMO. no need to say =INTERNAL or not or whatever. Theres tons of ways to look at this but the easiest might be to go look at a boxers back, and then look at their arms. It's the arms that are powering the punches...

[D_Glenn]

I am become more aware lately of my lack of hip mobility. Waist is probably ok.

Wondering if you use or recommend using horse stance or variations as a periodic test or static training to open the kua or if do not bother with these exercises because form or circle walking is sufficient.

I am mainly doing simple squats every so often, no low stance holding type work except for some static bridges on the ground and occasional yoga that has stuff like warrior 1, 2, etc. Surely not enough, though.

I think the best for the hips is would be the bagua jibengong: mainly 'scooping the moon from the sea' which is almost just like the warrior posture only moving dynamically through the posture, both hips, then back to the start.

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[everything]

D_Glenn, thanks. I was intuitively doing that but wasn't totally sure my intuition was correct. Good to get an informed opinion to confirm.

I was wondering about horse as a test because I currently don't have my back straight (upright). I think grahamb was talking about that earlier and had a photo, and I don't think my horse meets his requirements.