the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Bailewen wrote:

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But I'm sure his high school and then collegiat wrestling and then the collegiate wrestling championship wins have nothing to  do wi th  his ability to maintain a base, stay standing and stuff takedown attempts.

Kshurika wrote:

Right, bailewen. Wrestling did absolutely nothing for Bones. Also, Tim Cartmell is just being dramatic when he states frequently that wrestlers always have the edge when they get into other martial arts.

GrahamB wrote:

I can't tell if you missed the sarcasm in Bsilewen's post, or you're just doubling up on the sarcasm by adding your own

I don't know how to do those cool box-within-a-box things, but it was the latter, Graham. You should know that sarcasm is rarely missed by me (or the opportunity to engage in it). However, since coming home and reading the ensuing posts, I'm going to up my bet to quadruple.

Bhassler wrote:
That seems to be jumping context a little bit. My take is we were talking about grappling in the context of street/self-defense...

Really? Cuz I thought the topic had to do with Jon Bones. That is the clip we were discussing after all.

in which case "world-class" is by definition out of scope. I've rolled with a couple hobbyists, but never a super-badass grappler in my own weight class. ....

Your own, off-topic, definition. Dumbing it down like that makes the whole topic moot. If you limit the discussion to "a couple of hobbyists" then of course you're gonna feel that you:

...haven't found someone with a small or moderate amount of BJJ or a high-school wresting background or whatever to be all that formidable in terms of keeping me on the ground, once I had about 5 minutes of teaching and 15 minutes of practice working with the basic concept of how to get someone off you

Yes. I agree completely. Begginer grapplers have low level skill. Thanks for stating the obvious.

really like the grappling work used in this clip,

bailewen wrote:

Bhassler wrote:
That seems to be jumping context a little bit. My take is we were talking about grappling in the context of street/self-defense...

Really? Cuz I thought the topic had to do with Jon Bones. That is the clip we were discussing after all.

This topic has had little to nothing to do with Jon Jones for several pages now. I thought the conversation had gone to ground fighting in a self-defense context. What did you think we were talking about?

bailewen wrote:

in which case "world-class" is by definition out of scope. I've rolled with a couple hobbyists, but never a super-badass grappler in my own weight class. ....

Your own, off-topic, definition. Dumbing it down like that makes the whole topic moot. If you limit the discussion to "a couple of hobbyists" then of course you're gonna feel that you:

...haven't found someone with a small or moderate amount of BJJ or a high-school wresting background or whatever to be all that formidable in terms of keeping me on the ground, once I had about 5 minutes of teaching and 15 minutes of practice working with the basic concept of how to get someone off you

Yes. I agree completely. Begginer grapplers have low level skill. Thanks for stating the obvious.

To me a hobbyist is anyone who doesn't do it full time or professionally. And a world-class guy is a guy who is among the very best of the non-hobbyists. By my definition, there can only be a few of those guys. And being a hobbyist doesn't mean unskilled-- I rolled with at least one guy who competed in MMA. If it's a question of how much groundfighting is useful or necessary for a given goal, then there's something to talk about. Or if it's a conversation about Jon Jones, then that can be interesting, too. Otherwise, I'm not sure what we're talking about.


EDIT: edited for tone

You guys got upset because you said I was belittling the grapplers art, I was/am not, my original comments were all about how Angry Johnny got passed everybody's ground game. Never said he wasn't trained, never said there was no skill, just said look how be gets past everybody else's.